So fucking cross - £45 Clarks shoes not even fucking leather???????

[inlovewithhubby]

As above. Two pairs bought today for 4 and 6 year old. Bought patent for first time ever as my last child starts school and I caved. Just took the stickers out and discovered to my horror they aren't even leather?? How on earth can they justify that cost for man made fibre shoes? I am going to kick off massively, I got them in John Lewis so I'm starting there, but does anyone know how they manage it?

Man made fibre makes feet sweat. Leather also 'gives' in a way man made fibre doesn't. It's also cheap and I could have got a pair of plastic shoes off the shelf for about £7 from any supermarket. I thought I was paying for quality but I'm clearly not.

Interestingly there is a confusing sign on the labels if both pairs which resembles the leather sign, but they then clearly state that they are man made fibre. Im initially going after misrepresentation but i didn't even look at the signs - I just presumed that a 40 plus quid pair of Clarks shoes would be leather. AI really being U for having that expectation?

You don't really have cause to "kick off" unless they mislead you and made you think they are leather. Which they clearly didn't from your post...you can get a refund.

General I haven't said free range, grass fed, longer lived (this is questionable) etc isn't worth bothering with.

All animals deserve a healthy life enjoyed in their natural environment.

I have said I think it is wrong to pay other people to kill animals in order that I may eat them. Or wear them. Or drink the milk of their mothers.

And so I don't do it.

You're right. I see no grey area. For me it is very simple. I don't have the right to decide when another being should die and how they should die. I also don't have the right to profit or derive enjoyment from the consumption or use of their body parts.

I realise this thread has totally moved on, but.... barefoot shoes. I am a complete convert after buying (and returning) a pair of startrites for my 2yo that wouldn't bend because the sole was too thick.

The price goes up, the quality goes down... it is enough to make you want to to scream.

Wholeheartedly agree Wannabe

My boys are 10 and 8 but are size 5/6 so their shoes would expect over £50 in Clarkes. I walked out without even trying any on as thought it was disgraceful. I spent £11.99 in Sports Direct on a pair of school shoes which were pretty wide (1 DS is a G fitting) and if they do fall apart they'd have to get through more than 4 pairs this school year before I'd be worse off!

My dd was measured in brantano using a Clarks measure, she was 13.5 G but couldn't even get a 1 on her foot and ended up with Clarks 1.5 G !!

Supermarket shoes she's normally a 13 or 1 .

We had to go with the non patent ones as the patent ones in the same style and size were too big!!??

I have to admit 'vagan' didn't look right I'm sure you will be able to find plenty more spelling and grammar mistakes in my posts if you want. I'm crap at English.

I found the vegan posts boring because I was enjoying the OP's lighthearted ranty thread before it was high jacked by the long and serious vegan posts.

We had a vegan couple as lodgers when we were kids. I was bemused that they used to remove all the moss from their logs before they burnt them.

But did she find the toy?

Hang fire dowhathow, I'm actually going to get out of my fucking bed, go downstairs, find that shoe box and see if that bastard toy is in there! And if it is then I'm burning it, and then complaining to some other fucker about something else. I'll find something justifiable, you just watch me.

Jesus Christ there's a fucking gremlin in my shoe.

Thanks, Bobbit!

I came onto the thread in response to the discussion about leather - and then segued into talking about diet.

And thanks to you, OP, I was just about to start a new thread, but if you're happy to let the conversation run, then fine.

I agree that we have it in us to be omnivore, but our bodies have not developed to eat meat:

"You’ve got a long, winding digestive tract, weak stomach acid and no fangs. Carnivores have short digestive systems, SUPER powerful stomach acid, and razor sharp teeth (claws, too). Is it possible you were born for fruit of tree - NOT flesh of beast? I’d say so. But then I’m a ‘sucker for straight logic." JSekerak.com

We are in fact, opportunists - historically, we've taken our food where we could find it. And I wouldn't argue against the theory that our big brains are the result of eating meat.

However, there is much evidence that a plant-based diet is healthier for us than one which includes meat and meat products.

Here's a post from an earlier MN thread, by AbFabT:
"I truly believe going vegan is the best thing we can do for our health. We have cancer in my family so I did loads of research into prevention being better than cure, and am convinced cutting out meat and dairy is beneficial. One book I'd highly recommend is The China Study, by Dr.T.Colin Campbell (www.amazon.co.uk/China-Study-Comprehensive-Nutrition-Implications/dp/1932100660/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1280963998&sr=1-1&tag=mumsnetforum-21) - very convincing about switching to a plant-based diet for health reasons."

And there's also the Adventist Health Study.

And, for those who really want an in depth examination of the effects of eating a plant-based diet, there's this.

None of this addresses the animal welfare issue or the effects on global warming of eating meat. 2 other good reasons to consider eating less meat.

Jesus Christ there's a fucking gremlin in my shoe

Years ago that would've so made Quote of the Week.

I usually just get Kickers.

Leather is cruel. It's baby skin.

Hth

Bread not being adapted to be carnivores does not make us herbivores. Horses, who actually aren't that great as herbivores, have wide flat molars, very tough teeth, little or no canines (there's a gap in their mouths where these would be), a head and neck adapted for grazing and legs that enable them to walk on tiptoe and therefore gallop away from predators at speed.

If you're going to argue that we are not carnivores by virtue of the fact that we're not as adapted to meat eating as a cat, then you might as well argue that we're not herbivores because we aren't as adapted to eating grass as bovines, ovines and equines. Which actually would be true because we're omnivores - we can eat many different things and are not especially adapted to survive on one particular food group.

I think you do veganism a disservice by arguing that humans are herbivorous because it's easy to demonstrate that we are not. We can live on a plant based diet because we're very adaptable, but specialist herbivores we aren't. Thus if we're going to be vegans we're doing it for broadly moral reasons, although yes it is healthier not to eat meat every day.

Clarks can charge what they like for their shoes - there is no rule which says synthetic materials have to be cheaper than leather. OP says that the label "clearly states" they are not leather so am failing to see the issue here - buy different shoes, go to a different retailer if you are not happy. It's called choice. If you're "not going to pay over £40" then that's fine - other people are clearly happy to.

Personally we are very happy with Clarks, have had school shoes from them for years. Also rate Start Rite, especially for my elder son who has adult sized feet which are very skinny.

I have a shoe comment...

My son has worn George school shoes for the last 2 years ( since foundation) and they have been great - both lasted all year with no major scuffing. This year went back and bought another pair with leather uppers - £16.

All my friends are all "oh, Clarks, Kickers, Lelly Kelly" and then moan they cost near on 50 quid and i'm just like then buy something else?!

My dd had asda school shoes last term but complained they hurt her feet, which is why we've ended up with Clarks again as they have a soft bit along the top of the back which is where shoes rub.
If your children are comfy in cheap supermarket school shoes you are very lucky!! I wish mine were. Although I did manage to buy my youngest a lovely pair of trainers in asda for £8 which she says are comfy.

I think there's a massive difference between the industrial agricultural industry and low impact, high welfare farming. The majority of people are not going to give up meat so I think it's so important to educate people about making better choices.
We have rescued battery chickens and the state of them when they arrived was awful. Fortunately they have recovered well and seem happy, stimulated ladies who lay a few eggs for us. Since getting them i've given up most meat (still working on fish) and am working towards an animal free diet but it is hard. I'very been eating more things like quorn and quinoa but they too have massive negative impacts (malnutrition in Bolivian children as they export it and eat less nutritious potatos).
I think being able to make educated choices is important and this thread shows how so much of what we take for granted is hidden.

I think all clarks claims about making shoes with superior fit, better for feet etc rather go out the window when you discover that they're actually designed to have a random hole to contain gimmick toys. DS once ran around for a term on a gimmick toy before we found it.

Have used barefoot styles before and liked them. (I wish they made them in my size with the big toe boxes, I have square ended feet and get so fed up of all women's shoes only coming in pointy!) We went for start rite this term as they had a decent closed "girl" branded style. A step in the direction of compromise as I suspect all DD's female classmates will have non winter proof Mary Janes with added bows and sparkles.

Both dds (8 and 4) have had clarks shoes since the start. We only ever had one problem with them which was back in May when DD1 could no longer wear her school shoes because of the bastard hole for the toy collapsed and they hurt her. Bought her a pair of Asda shoes to tide her over and they were OK but only lasted the half term. No other problems in countless pairs of clarks shoes.

Well that's the other thing catkind. If 14 girls in her class are wearing sparkly clarks, DD1 is not going to want to wear a more sensible style. But definitely no sodding toys this time.

Gabilan, I'm arguing that human beings, over the last 20million or so years, have developed to become plant-eaters. I wouldn't compare us to equines, etc, but rather to other primates such as gorillas, which are much closer to us physiologically.

Being primarily plant-eaters, meat and meat products are deleterious to our health. On a personal note, my osteoarthritis, which was steadily getting worse, completely stabilised when I became a vegan. My nasal drip disappeared completely.

Have a look at this video from the Nutrition Facts website I linked to above:

<a class="break-all" href="http://nutritionfacts.org/video/food-as-medicinenutritionfacts.org/video/food-as-medicine" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">nutritionfacts.org/video/food-as-medicinenutritionfacts.org/video/food-as-medicine

It's a long video (1hr 14mins), but there is a transcript available.