to think Lynsey Sharp should keep her sour grapes to herself?

[WrinklyBathToes]

I can't help but feel for Caster Semenya, poor lass has been subjected to all sorts of medical interventions and whispers. It's not actually her fault, it's a natural blip, why should she be subjected to all this bitching from the losers?

[SonicSpotlight]

'scientists aren't even sure if elevated testosterone levels actually do confer any advantage'

No. The court said they haven't been presented with sufficient proof. Years of testosterone doping that resulted in routine testing of testosterone levels show that increased testosterone boosts women athlete's performance. Otherwise there were some deeply misguided drug cheats.

[panegyricS1]

Sharp isn't a world class athlete so it makes no difference to her anyway - she'll always be a plucky finalist, never a medalist.

[SonicSpotlight]

I'd imagine she's getting a lot of abuse from the trans lobby and from South Africa.

[soloula]

What do Michael phelps and ussin bolt have that makes them physically different from other men? They have nothing to do with this

Interesting article here about Michael Phelps and the way his body gives him a physical advantage over others. No difference from the way in which Caster's hormones may or may not confer an advantage but Phelps is (rightly imo) celebrated despite his clear advantages whereas poor Caster is vilified.

www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/swimming/10768083/Michael-Phelps-The-man-who-was-built-to-be-a-swimmer.html

[AnyFucker]

The point is, she might be winning medals if there were no other women with inflated testosterone levels competing in her races. Not sure why that isn't completely obvious.

[SonicSpotlight]

Really? She finished 6th behind three athletes with testosterone levels outside of the normal range for women.

[2rebecca]

I would be upset if I were an 800m runner. Caster and the other androgenic athletes (allegedly the top 3 in the 800m not just Caster so Sharp would have got a bronze medal) have male chromosomes, male pelvises and male testosterone levels. The maximum level of 10 for women (most women are well below 5 and men are 10-30) doesn't apply to intersex athletes so her level could be 30.
It's basically allowing 3 men to race against the women. Men are faster runners. I don't think anyone with a Y chromosome should be allowed to race as a woman.
There are still loads of other things they can do but they have a huge advantage over XX women.

[AnyFucker]

Caster also has advantageous physical characteristics over undoped women. As a result of having male levels of testosterone. The comparison with Phelps is null.

[nancy75]

Sharp isn't a world class athlete? I didn't realise they let anyone have a go at an Olympic final, I should have put my name down for a go. What a load of twaddle!

[AnyFucker]

Yeah, some rather unformed comments here (putting it kindly)

[youarenotkiddingme]

Can I ask on this thread (btw I'm 100% not judging) but I guess the comments and questions asked to LS and comments on testosterone are because the athlete has differential testosterone to what is expected in woman?

I ask because when I watched her run I thought her physique and 'look' appeared quite masculine compared to the usual middle distance runners.

[stitchglitched]

The new ruling means that Caster and others no longer have to take testosterone suppressants, and surprise surprise their form has improved greatly. It must be crap to be an elite athlete and yet know that you have no chance of winning because others have testosterone levels that you would be banned for attempting to reach.

[nokidshere]

Her testosterone levels are within the rules required for the race. She has to take medication to make sure it stays that way. She has been subjected to all sorts of tests and ruled that she can run.

Even with elevated Testosterone levels there is no actual proof that this gives her any advantage according to the IAAF.

It's disgusting that this woman's medical history has been shared and discussed with everyone. I would be suing the pants off whoever did that.

[AnyFucker]

Perhaps the only way to level the field (as it were) is to allow unrestricted doping for XX women.

The same could be said for a lot of competitive sport though.

[nokidshere]

This morning stitch they quite clearly stated that she still is taking medication

[JinkxMonsoon]

because when I watched her run I thought her physique and 'look' appeared quite masculine compared to the usual middle distance runners.

Exactly. Her testosterone levels are sufficiently high enough to give her a male physique and male facial features. She's pretty obviously intersex.

[SonicSpotlight]

Hormones impact the shape of our bodies.

[LunaLoveg00d]

namechanger1981 If Caster's not female, then what is she?

She's intersex. She is biologically BOTH male and female. She looks like a female from the outside, but has male components to her biology which means she produces many times more testosterone than a standard woman would. She was brought up as a girl. There aren't many people like Caster Semenya, around 1 in 2000. It's a spectrum, and it's not in any way the same as people who "identify" with one gender or the other irrespective of their genitalia. This is a biological fact.

I don't think she should have been allowed to compete and can understand why Lynsey Sharp is pissed off about it. Other athletes were probably equally angry, but weren't asked about it by the BBC.

[AnyFucker]

nokids isn't the proof in the pudding ?

When Caster was taking testosterone supplements her form dropped massively

When she was allowed to let her natural testosterone rise to levels way out if the reach of undoped XX women she starts to blow the field apart again

Along with the other women in a similar biological situation. I am not picking on her alone.

[treaclesoda]

I don't know who Lynsey Sharp is, and I haven't seen what she said. But surely it's harsh to say she has no right to be pissed off because she isn't a world class athlete anyway? If you are running at the olympics you must be a hell of a lot better than most people who have ever lived.

I feel sorry for Caster Semenya, because her body is her body and it isn't her fault. But I feel even more sorry for women who train hard and know that they can't come close to matching the times of those on the winners podium because they have a genetic advantage which goes far beyond the 'normal' genetic advantage that elite athletes have.

[SonicSpotlight]

It didn't say what medication did it? It can be medically necessary to take female hormones.

[youarenotkiddingme]

I'm so glad to have found this thread. I was watching and giving my head a wobble because I kept thinking about her physique. And I hate people judging on looks but wondered it it went deeper iyswim?

Also there was a runner in the same race wearing a red t shirt who I thought the same about.

[AnyFucker]

Sorry was taking testosterone suppressants her form dropped. Poor typing from me.

[OurBlanche]

Look, Caster Semenya is not a cheat. Before I continue, I have 2 degres in exercise and physioiology - Lynsey Sharp studied Law!!!

her testosterone levels are within rang. A number of other female athletes who do not dope have equally high levels... and this has been true forever, it is one of the reasons they are good sprinters, weightlifters etc. They simply have higher testosterone levels or their strength training results in a stronger testosterone reaction - and such physiological reposnses are the WHOLE reason for such training, in ALL men and women.

The IAAF has until July next year to submist proper research into the real, specific effects of hyperandrogenism on athletic performance. Until then Semenya is, as an intersex person, raised as a female, a woman!

Sharp is no worse off than any male sprinter whose career coincides wth Bolt, tennis player with Sampras etc, rowers and Redgrave, swimers and Phelps, etc.

If/when the IAAF comes up with something better than "Oooh it's not fair, she's intersex" then some rules will change. Until then, Sharp needs to shut up and keep her unpleasant views to herself. Caster Semenyas position is well known to all athletes, they can choose to be understanding of the science behind law, even/especially if they disagree with it. And it is sodding pointless to be nasty to/about the woman herself, I suspect she would rather not be the 'freak' se is so often portrayed as!

[SonicSpotlight]

NoKids all that means, since the court's intervention, is that she needs to have testosterone levels that are normal for her - that she matches her biological passport.