To make DS take DSS along again

[MaryCoco]

Name changed as this very identifying.

My DS and DSS are both 13, DH and I have been together for 7 years but because we both have every other week arrangements, the boys rarely see each other.

So DS would stay with us for a week and at this point DSS would be at his mother's then DS would go to his Dad's the following week and DSS would stay with us. So they only really see each other during the holidays.

They have very seperate lives, go to different schools, have different interests etc but they've always been friendly with each other.

The past year DSS has had some horrible bullying at school, it's been such an awful year for him and it's really changed him, he's not as out going as he use to be, more quiet, doesn't like to go out anymore

He's starting a new school this September and it's quite close to DS' school, lots of DS' friends attend the school.

DSS has spent most of the holidays when he's with us in his room, DH and I have managed to take him out a handful of days and he hated going out with us.

Two weeks ago DS and all his friends were going out to the cinema/arcade/lunch it was quite a large group and a number of the kids attend DSS new school, so I asked DS if he could ask DSS to join them

I had lots of complaints from DS, DSS is apparently too boring, too quiet, lame, would embarrass him etc but I wasn't taking no for an answer.

They both had a great time and DS said that DSS wasn't that bad. Which was pretty much code for you were right Mum.

Tonight DS and a large group around 12 other kids are going bowling, he was telling us over dinner last night and complaining about the odd number so they couldn't have a proper match.

DSS asked if he could come, it's the first time all summer that DSS has actually asked to do something and DS instead of saying yes no problem, said he'd have to ask.

When I asked him after dinner away from DSS and DH who exactly he had to ask, he said he just didn't want to take DSS as he'd embarrass him

I brought up the last time DSS went with him and how he wasn't that bad and he just shrugged, I told him he'd have to take him and he just rolled his eyes and went up to his room.

They're both still sleeping whilst I'm sitting here annoyed, I don't get it, is it really that hard to show some empathy and take DSS along, AIBU?

I think you should force encourage your DS to take your DSS along, especially as he has asked and it will balance up the numbers.

Okay, the response seem to be more balanced now, just to clear up a few things.

DS has only ever taken DSS out once with a large group of friends, a lot of the kids don't all know each other so it won't just be DS who brings along a new face.

DSS asked this time, which I think is really significant.

I didn't/don't/wasn't planning to ask DS to take DSS again, it was always a one time thing to me.

These aren't DS' super close friends from his school, these are friends from after school activities/primary school that he'll only see once a week when September arrives and school starts back up, so any incidents won't affect him long term.

90% of the kids all attend DSS' new school, so I think it'll really help if he knows a few familiar faces.

And we do lots of things together as a family, but that was never the point of this thread.

I think you should quietly talk to your DS again about the problems that DSS has been having and appeal to his kind nature. Ask him how he'd feel if it was the other way around.
DSS must have plucked up lots of courage to ask and DS should be flattered that DSS wants to be with him!
You sound lovely OP

I can see why this is delicate - for everyone.

I think you've done what you can and shouldn't insist.

i think this would be the ideal thing for them both to go along to, if it's a large group bowling, your stepson is hardly going to be playing gooseberry

A few words about being a bit kinder wouldn't go amiss for your son I think, along with a few for your stepson about making a little more effort to get to know people, or even just make more effort with conversation

Can you drop them off and then offer to collect whenever they're done, even if it is DSS only for the bowling and DS later if he wants to go on and do something else

Agree with pps that this would seem an appropriate time to really encourage DS to take DSS, since as you say must have taken some courage from DSS to ask to come along. But, as you've said, make clear to DS that it doesn't mean he's expected always to include DSS, especially once they've started schools and are more settled (and hopefully DSS finding feet and his own friends).

You sound lovely. DSS is lucky to have you watching his back.

Good luck

We teach children lots of things and one of the things you should try to teach a child is empathy. We complain that our DHs don't know how to support and help others well here is the chance to help DS become a better man.

Explain the situation honestly (if he doesn't know already) and ask him to support DSS. Tell him you would be proud and grateful. This is the truth no manipulation. Try and have this conversation as equals not TELLING him. Throw yourself on his good nature.

Part of becoming a decent person is helping others, it's more than exams.

If any of my children had said the unkind things your Ds had said especially when he had been complaining about odd numbers, I would be extremely disappointed with them. It costs nothing to offer friendship and kindness to another human being especially when they are related.
If I was in your position I would be ensuring your dss went along.
I would also be talking to my ds about excluding people, bullying and how this is not acceptable from decent human beings.
Yes I take a hard line on nasty behaviour.

Your ds should take him, he sat there complaining about odd numbers so invited the question himself. It would be really nasty not to take him in these circumstances.

I think my initial reaction would be the same as yours op.
However, thinking about it I really do think that group dynamics are so fragile at this age - I wouldn't want to risk any long term resentment of Dss by ds if the group rejected either of the boys.
I would maybe do as another poster suggested and encourage a better relationship between the boys. Then the group outings with Dss may be initiated by ds himself.
It is a tricky one. Bullying at this age can be devastating, but you wouldn't want to risk dss feeling socially rejected by family too x

It's a kind thing to do. Your DS had a problem - uneven team numbers - and your DSS suggested that he came along to make up the numbers. So that benefits everyone.

For your DS to turn around and say that actually he can't come is really mean and excluding. It's not like your DSS is tagging along on every social occasion.

I also would have a word with your DS. This is a good opportunity for him to learn empathy and kindness.

I don't think ds is being or has been nasty.

Imagine this:-

"My husband keeps insisting I bring his sister out with me whenever I go out with my friends. I've tried it once or twice but she just doesn't talk or get involved. I don't mind doing the odd thing just the two of us but I'm finding it impossible to just relax and enjoy my evenings out when he insists I bring her. She doesn't have many friends and is having a tough time of it so I've sort of gone along with it for a bit but things are getting awkward in my friendship group and I just can't be bothered any more"

There would be entirely different responses.

I think pp have identified a good point though - ds mentioned the bowling and even mentioned odd numbers, in front of dss - so hardly surprising that dss suggested he might go! In those circs it will be quite unkind now to tell dss 'no' - and also it would mean lying to dss that someone else has said 'no' - not good for dss' self esteem and not even true!

Very tricky, because i can understand the point about fragile group dynamics, and it will help no one if ds ends up not being invited either. But op has said that it's not ds' main social group, they don't all know each other anyway, so that may not be such an issue.

For the future, not a bad lesson to learn that if you really don't want someone to ask to join you, it may be sensible not to mention that you need an extra person!

If DS is forced to take Dss then it's probably going to be obvious to DSS and I can't imagine that will make him feel good. Kindness needs to come from within, not just because he's made to do it. Can you imagine finding out that someone had done something nice only because they were pushed into it?

It might be better for DSS not to actually ask outright as well, as this can cause awkwardness

id have another word with DS and ask him to take his DSS with him. Normally I wouldn't expect a DC to take a sibling with them but in this case I think it would kind. It's not something that needs to be ongoing. It's just a once off.

Napqueen because your scenario is completely different to the situation OP describes. OP has asked her son once to take DSS and this is a 2nd time. IF your scenario happened after 2 times I would betting a lot of biscuits would be given out to your scenario.

OP I grew up with step siblings and a split family and yes it can be annoying to be expected to take your step/youngers with you anywhere you wish to go. However in this case your talking 2nd time this summer holiday and I would very much go with the reality of it. tell DS you would feel grateful and proud if he would invite DSS to join. I would also go down the lane of " this would help DSS before he changes school and I would feel you had done a kind thing" Perhaps ask how your DS would feel if it was him in DSS's situation.

I would absolutely make my son take his step brother.

He's 13, no way near too young to earn a lesson on empathy.

I would be inclined to talk it through properly with DS and make sure he realises what a tough time DSS has had.

One word of warning though, if you think your DS would be at all unkind or excluding of DSS while they were out (and you know your DS well enough) then please don't let DSS go. He does not need to be starting a new school where he is known as the step brother of X who was treated like a nuisance or made fun of and who X (who is their friend!) doesn't like. That would not be a good start for him.

DSS has been bullied, he needs help in his new environment. Calling him 'lame' is just perpetuating it.

Maybe get your son to look at this thread, to see what your DSS and other bullied kids have been through?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_classics/2695326-to-want-to-send-an-anonymous-letter-to-everyone-in-my-childs-year?msgid=62800502

The OP did reword the letter towards the end of the thread, but its message was still the same.

You sound like a really nice step mum. I think I'd have another go at talking with your DS and try to persuade him to take DSS but I wouldn't force him as that could be counter productive.

I really hope he takes him. For your DS to turn round and say no. or that others said no, is another rejection and could really set your DSS back. This is a fantastic opportunity to help him as he moves school. My heart would break for him if he's been so brave to ask and gets told no. Please try again with DS and explain just how hard a time DSS has had. One more time before school could make all the difference to DSS time there.

The thing which is most important to your ds at the moment is how he looks in front of his friends. At this age, I think this consideration overrides all others - reasonable suggestions from parents, making dss feel better about himself etc. It would only have taken one comment from one of his friends on the last occasion, such as "do you have to bring your sb everywhere?" to fix in his mind that it can't happen again, even if it actually went quite well.

I haven't had this situation with step siblings, but excruciatingly many times over the years with ex-friends of my 3ds who still think they are friends (and the other way round), exclusions from friendship groups etc. It really feels quite brutal to me, but I think diplomacy and empathy come later, I'm afraid.

I've been known to try financial bribery on some occasions, when desperate!

i would tell your ds about the problems that dss is having, and say that it would be nice if he included him but you will also not push.

when i was a teenager, if my mum wanted me to do anything i felt extremely strongly that i DIDN"T want to do it. have the discussion once, and then BACK OFF.

Napqueen, the situation you described is completely different. This is only the 2nd time and both boys had a good time last time and I'd never keep asking him to do so.

Jenlindley, I'm not afraid of that at all, DS knows DSS has had a hard time and that he'll be starting the new school and on their last outing he really tried to introduce DSS to a lot of the kids that attend the school and has got him a lot of information from friends on what teachers are like, what everyone's interested in etc. He can at times be very considerate.

I don't think I'll force him, I'll just talk to him and try and get him to understand how much this could mean for DSS, that it would be a 1 time thing and how proud it would make me, if that doesn't work then I'll just repeatedly bang my head against the wall, why is this age so difficult.