To think it's so sad/frustrating that most people in the nhs don't know how to treat t2 diabetes

[trinity0097]

Most nhs nurses (who do most of the treating if t2 diabetics) have no clue as to how to actually deal with the disease at little cost to the NHS, I.e. To go low carb.

Just moved, so annual check at a new surgery, nurse asked how I managed it as she saw I wasn't on medication. I said I did low carb, she was impressed. Ten I found out that she thinks that low carb means to eat a fistful of low GI carbs with EVERY meal. That will just make someone with diabetes get worse diabetes as it is carbs that are the problem!

So if the nurses follow the NHS advice they have to give patients 3 monthly blood tests (at cost), give them medication (at cost) and deal with their worsening symptoms (at cost), plus the patients don't lose weight.

Surely if it's as simple as eat hardly any carbs, you will lose weight and get back to normal sugar levels they need to see this and give this advice. If I had followed the NHS guidelines I would be the same weight and still be properly diabetic, not 5 stone lighter and with normal blood sugars.

Pineapple woo was the word I couldn't find.
Low carb may well work for some pp and I am glad it helped any of you to get to a healthy weight reverse/halt your insulin resistance. But the evidence isn't there and the title of your thread is fairly insulting op.
When the evidence is there to support this it will be adopted or at least promoted by nhs, but at the moment the best evidence available doesn't support this method over the current guidelines.
In the meantime unknowledgable years of training and yearly updates hcp will provide you with what is considered to be evidenced base practise.

There is a lot of evidence to support low carb being beneficial to diabetics. There isn't much evidence for high carb low fat. But it's like the medical profession can't, simply can't, admit they've been wrong all these years.

maggie have a read the links I posted below re: fat & carbohydrate in T2. These are scientific guidelines from experts & what HCP's base their practice on.

For HCP's not to follow scientific evidence would involve disciplinary action & possibly losing their registration.

Do you seriously believe that doctors, nurses etc are all in a big conspiracy to hood-wink patients with the wrong advice? Really?

Or perhaps lay people aren't good at critically appraising evidence?

I dont consider myself to be a layperson. yes, I do believe the medical profession have got it wrong.They certainly havent got it right!Maybe it's only those of us who have to live with this condition who can understand just how dangerous and counter productive a low fat high carbon diet can be. After all we're the ones who have to live with the consequences.

carbohydrate not carbon.

When I cut carbs, guess what, my diabetes is much much easier to control, I barely need any medication and I feel healthier. Do you know why? It's because my body can't handle carbohydrates. So having a diet full of them ain't really gonna help me. Why is that so very difficult to understand?

The problem is idefix the evidence is out there, but it's a case of head in the sand. Yes they are doing what they are 'told' but if a whole GP surgery in Liverpool can go off message and advocate low carb then they obviously don!t have to stick to the script!

What evidence is there for low fat high carb diets - actually that was based on one very flawed study in 1958 called the seven countries study, then all other studies/'professionals' based their findings on that and suddenly the whole world went low fat high carb. Obesity rates have risen, T2 diabetes has risen.

If I had a time machine I would go back to 1957/8 and stop that study being published or made sure it was done in a fair way with correct findings.

LostSight - good insight about the current situation.

Trinity- I haven't read the whole thread but I think the GP or the surgery you mention even got an RCGP innovation award. From what I remember it was a long project, over many months (as of course it would be). All the more laudable but unfortunately so many GPs and other staff are overwhelmed and overworked by day-to-day things.

20 plus years ago my mum was advised to low carb. Plenty of NHS professionals do advise it and the research is plentiful.

The rest just aren't clued up/doing a poor job in the same way you get good and bad tradesmen.

OP

This is going to sound goady, but you were diagnosed less than two years ago and you have decided that most NHS nurses don't know what they are doing when it comes to t2d.

You don't know that.

My mother was diagnoses in, er, well late 1970s, not sure the exact date and the advice then was to low carb.

Then the advice changed to low fat, my mum asked the GP about it and said something about doing the wrong thing for years, her GP said "How do you think we feel?"

My mum also took part in a clinical trial of a low GI diet.

Research is ongoing with diabetes, as it is with all medical conditions, it's unreasonable for all nurses to keep up with that research so they go by the advice given.

As for seeing a nutritionist - anyone can call themselves that.

I'm really glad the low carbing has worked for you, I'm glad you are healthy but you don't know if that would work for everyone.

Rates of diabetes are different in different racial groups and also runs in families so there is probably some genetic link.

It's very possible in the near future we will have personalised medicine.

For one diabetic that might mean low carbs, for another it might not.

I'm a Type 1 and agree I have been told some horrendous thing, in my area all the doctors know about is Type 2. At 10st 7, my BMI was something like 23, so healthy (I'm 5ft 6), I was reduced to tears by a doctor who told me I needed to lose MORE weight and that would help my blood sugars come down. Another nurse asked me if I was on tablets or insulin - there are very few T1's on tablets - and my test strips and needles were reduced to save costs. One argued that I should not be using the combined pill, even though my consultant said it was fine. The specialist nurses at the hospital are very good though. I was only diagnosed 3yrs ago and quite honestly I've only seen one consultant in that time who knows what she's talking about. I dread going to appointments because I don't know what judgements and incorrect advice is going to be thrown at me this time!

Stately I don't have diabetes....and the ITP was triggered by antibodies not hormones. If ITP could be cured by diet, don't you think we would all be told to do it? Big pharma is not interested in ITP, not enough money in it.

Scary- there are many orphan diseases that big pharmaceuticals are not interested in, ITP is not alone in that. The condition I have has no cure, doctors know very little of it but some of it's suffers have been successfully self experimenting with diet, a lot won't and feel very angry if diet is even mentioned as cause, a significant number are finding they are able to control their condition through diet, the link between diet and our condition isn't always obvious - why would nightshades be a problem but they are for some - why would coconut or raspberries cause me to flare - they doesn't show up as a problem food in any of the range of tests I have had....science as yet does not know or understand why. And while I get that people want proof and science behind them, others like myself are willing to give diet a go, often because they are in so much pain and there are no other options left, it costs nothing and benefits no one but yourself.
It's bloody annoying and inconvenient though and your GP or Consultant will be unlikely to suggest it because it has no scientific backing.

pineapple If you are interested in the science and research behind diet helping MS then you could read The Wahls Protocol by Terry Wahls - researched and written by a doctor who healed herself and who continues to try to spread the word that dirt can heal - she also has a few inspirational Ted talks that are freely available - mind you if you just wish to post rude comments and wait for the science to catch up, fill your boots!

Scary You've probably seen all this before but you know just in case..Food as a cure

So OP can I ask why not low carb before getting type2 ? Rather than waiting until you need to change blood sugar levels to become lower?

This ^ absolutely, Katy44. We are all being advised to eat HUGE amounts of carbohydrate.

Follow the standard American/uk food guidelines and you could easily top 300g total carbohydrate daily and much of that in acellular, highly processed forms (ie breakfast cereals, rice, pasta and bread products). Fear of fat has driven the increase in the carb content of our diets over the last 35/40 years - the time frame in which obesity, t2 and autoimmune disease have skyrocketed.

IMO, ALL OF US need to cut down drastically on our total carbs (not just "sugar")... And replace almost all of the acellular/processed ones with veg, leaves and (some) fruit.

Then yes, you have a very good chance of avoiding developing t2 and other metabolic diseases.

There is no need for people to drastically cut down on carbs unless they are eating far more than is recommended.

The current guidelines i.e. the eatwell plate are fine for most of the population if people actually stick to them.

Some people really need to stop scare-mongering and over-exaggerating. The idea that we need to replace almost all of our rice and pasta with veg in order to prevent t2 diabetes is fantasy. You could choose to do it that way but it isn't necessary because it isn't carbs themselves that cause type 2 diabetes.

Agree Rafals, most people ime are shocked by what constitutes a portion rice, pasta, bread etc.
I would also counter that where the recommendations are followed hunger is not a feature when using the eat well plate.

Whilst never diagnosed with diabetes (pcos sufferer so at increased risk) I lost Six stone with a mix of slimming world and latterly balanced diet/calorie counting - no weight regain so far.

Will watch with interest future developments because it is an area that is still developing.

What if your T2 is caused by genetics and race and your weight is actually healthy, as it is for my dad (and possibly me in the future given the strong genetic link)? Does low carving help in that situation? Is it possible to low carb and NOT lose weight, as that isn't our issue and we wouldn't want to drop below current weight?

Mam, if you are interested in this, I suggest you read around sites like DietDoctor (lchf) and Marksdailyapple.

I'd say genetics doesn't CAUSE T2, it increases the risk, if you are ALSO exposed to certain environmental factors (modern high carb, highly processed diet, lack of activity for example).

People with some ethic backgrounds are at much higher risk of T2 at lower BMI as they are much more likely to carry certain genetic combinations than people from other ethnic backgrounds. People of Asian/southeast Asian decent eating highly westernised diets (the SAD diet, standard American diet as its called!), are at high risk of T2 at BMI of over about 22.

Slim doesn't mean healthy- normal bmi with a very high carb, highly processed diet and little exercise could put your risk factors way above that of an much heavier, very active person who eats better!

You won't lose weight on a lower carb diet if you are eating the appropriate amounts of fat and protein, but you will lower your blood sugar.

www.theguardian.com

Mam
This articles gives you information about how lentils beans added to your diet can help dispose of internal fat along with exercise
If you look at Michael Mosley he was a tofi and had t2 that was why he was so interested in the research to reverse t2 by eating 800 calories a day to reduce internal fat. Have a read of his book

A lot of the problem is that most patients won't actually cut out carbs. So you can't adopt that as the official nhs treatment.

It is known many patients don't take medication as required but that doesn't mean you don't perscribe tablets as some patients don't take them as required.