To think it's so sad/frustrating that most people in the nhs don't know how to treat t2 diabetes

[trinity0097]

Most nhs nurses (who do most of the treating if t2 diabetics) have no clue as to how to actually deal with the disease at little cost to the NHS, I.e. To go low carb.

Just moved, so annual check at a new surgery, nurse asked how I managed it as she saw I wasn't on medication. I said I did low carb, she was impressed. Ten I found out that she thinks that low carb means to eat a fistful of low GI carbs with EVERY meal. That will just make someone with diabetes get worse diabetes as it is carbs that are the problem!

So if the nurses follow the NHS advice they have to give patients 3 monthly blood tests (at cost), give them medication (at cost) and deal with their worsening symptoms (at cost), plus the patients don't lose weight.

Surely if it's as simple as eat hardly any carbs, you will lose weight and get back to normal sugar levels they need to see this and give this advice. If I had followed the NHS guidelines I would be the same weight and still be properly diabetic, not 5 stone lighter and with normal blood sugars.

Yes beyond nightshades and dairy seem to aggravate a lot of autoimmune conditions. It's the protein in dairy that causes an insulin like response.
If you are happy with taking your meds and they work for you with acceptable/no side effects then what's the problem? The dietary route is bloody hard but there is no pill I can take that will fix my condition so raising awareness of the dietary approach is important. My Dad has type 2 and while the meds control some of his symptoms they do not fix him and his health continues to deteriorate, I've told him what he needs to do but he won't change his diet now.

I have just looked at the Diabetes UK website and their food advice still seems to be following the eat-carbohydrate guidelines.
So they are encouraging people to include carbs daily and also grouping sugar (as a separate thing) in with fat and encouraging people to eat as little as possible of both.
I'd got the impression they were a bit more switched-on than this?

Sorry to derail slightly, but do any of you who know stuff about T2 have a view on the VLCD as a way to improve insulin function (I won't call it reversing T2 as I suspect it's more a case of improving your results so that you can live healthily without meds rather than taking you back to a totally normal function)?

I think it's a little risky to say it helps all autoimmune illnesses. If someone with RA refused medication because they thought they could manage it through diet they've a good chance of ending up with irreversible joint damage. Someone with APS could risk a blood clot. I'm sure some people with some autoimmune illnesses can try it but blinding stating it applies to all autoimmune illnesses is not a good idea.

The diabetes.co.uk website is far more switched on - very different to diabetes uk.

Scarednoob - totally worked for me. My hba1c yesterday was 5.2 (33), I aim for 20-50g of carbs per day.

diabetes.co.uk website is brilliant - helped me enormously come to terms with and treat my condition. Much better than diabetes UK IMHO

I am not advocating people come off their meds - but Is there a good reason why people with any autoimmune condition who wishes to, cannot try the dietary approach to see if it works? People who low carb and have type 2 gradually come off their meds as and when their condition improves but the decision that they don't need meds comes from the medical professional - it's not guess work.
To be clear - If you wish to use diet to control your condition you need consult your dr before coming off your meds. I'm just saying that diet may help you get there. You need to take ownership of your health and your diet.

I think there have been huge changes in the last few years in what the received wisdom actually is. Medics are probably afraid to recommend something that, until a very few years ago, was considered to be terribly damaging. Atkins, for a long time the most widely known advocate of low carb, was treated like an absolute pariah.

Recent studies I read about seemed to suggest that type two diabetes could actually be reversed by sticking to an intake of 600calories a day for a month. I am fairly sure, if I am diagnosed with it at some point, that I would probably give it a try, but I don't expect my doctor to support it as it isn't currently considered sufficiently well proven.

It's a big step for the NHS, changing guidelines that have been in place for a number of years and to justify it, they have to have concrete evidence that it works better. I suspect it isn't in any way down to 'ignorance of nurses' as your OP implies. I suspect it is down to currently accepted 'best practice' which may not keep up with rapid changes in public opinion. Low carb also seems like common sense to me as well, but if the NHS specifies a certain protocol, anyone going against that would be liable if anything went wrong.

The Diet doctor was brought to court by 2 dietitians for advocating low carb high fat to treat his patients in Sweden - he won on the basis of the evidence he presented.So I can see why doctors are reluctant - the system is so frustrating!

Stately, I have ITP, which means my immune system attacks my platelets, and this was triggered 20 years ago by pregnancy. I avoid alcohol as that depresses platelets, but as the platelets are either destroyed in the spleen or the liver, I really don't see that changing my diet would make any difference. My immune system reacted against antibodies from ds.

Medschoolrat, I reversed ds's pre diabetes markers by low carbing, and have got dh back on track with his T2 by following the Hairy Bikers diet recipes, making sure he gets a good protein hit for breakfast, and trying to do low fat, but unprocessed, so low fat yoghurt without any crap in it, s/s milk, lean meat etc. I've got 10kg off him so far without really trying too hard...next step is trying to get the next 5 kg off him, then we'll do it in smaller steps after that. Lots of green veg (broccoli and green beans) and trying to make sure that the protein content of a meal is at least 50% of the carb content, or more if possible.

I don't know how diet helps people with MS to recover but it does. If you don't think it'll help you scary teacher that's fair enough - there's no compulsion - just a suggestion for anyone who wants to give it a go.

https://www.diabetes.org.uk/About_us/What-we-say/Food-nutrition-lifestyle/Dietary-fat-consumption-in-the-management-of-Type-2-diabetes/

Here's the link for Diabetes Uk's evidence-based statement on the role of fat, and general dietary recommendations for people with T2.

A Mediterranean-type diet is recommended.

This is what most healthcare professionals working in diabetes care will use.

So it's nonsense to say that all HCP's working in diabetes care are advising patients wrongly on diet.

For the record, I would take metformin if I had T2, irrespective of my HbA1c, due to it's cardio- protective benefits.

It's not just about glucose control: 80% of people with T2 die from cardio- vascular disease.

Actually scary - if your condition was triggered by pregnancy hormones - then it will be the insulin which affects your hormones that will in turn affect your condition.

I think there might be some confusion going on with some people thinking insulin is involved in all autoimmunity.

Link for evidence-based guidelines on carbohydrates;

www.gov.uk/government/publications/sacn-carbohydrates-and-health-report

I'm reading this thread with interest but am a layman at best when it comes to diabetes knowledge. Can I ask a question?

If you change your diet to low carb, How do you not become suddenly hypoglycaemic? The advice for someone with hypoglycaemia is to eat a certain minimum about of carbs or juice. Do you still do this?

Cakeforbreakfast - Those with t2 are pre-deposed to hyper, not hypo as t1 patients tend to do.

The number of times I have been told that I will not function if I have 20g of carbs a day is just bad knowledge from GPs and nurses. It is simply untrue. I was told in hospital by the nutritionalist that if I continued I would lose my brain function - this is simply incorrect knowledge based on bad training and and inability to research their own specialist areas and understand/look into new trends.

The beauty of advocating a low carb high fat diet to type 2 diabetics, many of whom will be overweight is that it is a diet that means that you do not feel hungry. This is crucial as most people fail with diets because they feel starved and then break their diet, therefore it fails. You are more likely to stick with a diet if you are seeing results and not feeling hungry.

Those with T2 can have hypos if treated with certain medications and/or insulin.

I've come to the conclusion that I have to take an active role in managing my diabetes. I try to low carb, I monitor my blood sugar so I know which foods send my blood sugar high and stay there and avoiding them (white bread, pasta, porridge - I miss you!).

I was diagnosed t2 fairly young (in my 20s), I also have pcos. I lost weight on ww (following high carb/low fat guidance) but diabetes didn't improve (& I gained it back).

Over the years I've also tried exercise - there was a gym programme I did that said that if you didn't lose x inches/lbs they'd give you your money back - I got my money back (& still no improvement to diabetes).

I tried low carbing, it brought my weight down. I tried the 600 cal for 6 weeks programme, lost weight but still no change to diabetes (although I had read that if you've had diabetes a while it may not reverse it).

My consultant said she didn't think it was sustainable, the dietician (when I was pregnant and there was a question mark over whether it was safe to low carb then) didn't understand why I was doing it - although tbh gave me a carb counting book when she realised I wouldn't be eating carbs in any quantity.

I'll be honest, there are times when I don't want to low carb - when my family are eating fish and chips/pasta/cake and I'm having to make different meals, but it really is the only way to do it (in my experience).

Cake for breakfast - as a diabetic on meds/insulin, when I low carb I just reduce my insulin. I continue to test, but i'm fine on just my pills when my carbs are low. They aren't the type to cause hypos but if they were I'd drop them gradually and test to find the right level. It's easier than it may sound, just need to test regularly to ensure your blood sugars are not going high.

Dietician's, nurses and doctors have all given me the wrong dietary advice. Low carb where possible, otherwise low gi. I still need meds though but it means I take much less insulin

Its curtains - you can still have fish and chips on low carb! Use almond flour for batter (dip fish in egg and coat) and celeriac for the chips, lovely with a bit of tartare sauce on the side!

Maggie - I love celeriac chips! Just miss the lack of cooking required in a nip to the chippy

I don't know how diet helps people with MS to recover but it does.

Then go to fucking medical school, become a doctor and do some proper research into it instead of spreading woo, ya fucking bullshit merchant.

I low carb because I was overweight. It helped my weight and did jack-all for my autoimmune condition.