... To want to cut back on parent visiting?

[souperb]

Before we had children our parents lived within 30 mins of each other. When I was pregnant my parents announced they were going to move to the other side of the country. They have always been very upfront about not wanting to help with or look after our children and I appreciate their honesty. They like hearing about the children and enjoy us visiting. Because of the distance, we visited 3-4 times a year. In laws also like being visited and have been similarly disinclined to babysit until the death of FIL a few years ago. MIL now has one child at a time for a sleepover 1-2 times a year and they really enjoy this time they spend with her. After FIL died, MIL moved away to the same city as SIL. MIL is getting more "elderly" and needs help with shopping and general wrangling. SIL works full time and is often away at weekends, so this tends to fall to us, usually at the weekend when DH is about with the car. My parents are also getting on. DM is in early stages of dementia. DF is struggling to cope. Last year they moved again to a more remote area. It takes me nearly 7 hours to get there by train and taxi (I don't drive). It's 3 hours in the car, but we ALL have to go and so the DC essentially get no weekend (so no parties, friends, hobbies or relaxing) and neither do DH and I. I have 2 sisters who visit them 1-2 times a year (both are single and childless, so I feel they are less encumbered than me). I have asked my parents to consider moving nearer, but they refuse despite the fact that they are very car dependant and are unlikely to be able to stay there long term.

I am increasingly fed up of feeling we are the ones that do everything. That our sisters do not pull their weight. But also that the "social contract" has been broken - both sets of parents have refused to babysit even occasionally, and have made positive decisions to relocate away from us. AIBU to cut back our visits (whether the slack is picked up by our sisters or not)?

I'm a bit at this line of reasoning that if parents don't help with their grandchildren, you're under no obligation to help them. I assume they brought the op up? I didn't realise you had to put in a 'double shift' before you qualified for assistance.

Op, I think the issues are that they relocated so far away - and yes they chose to do that. Secondly that you can't go and visit without taking the whole family and thirdly that your siblings aren't pulling their weight (although I don't think being childless should be relevant - they could and should argue that you chose to have children). I would work on one of those - whichever feels the most achievable although they all sound difficult. Good luck

YANBU. They chose to move away. I think the once a month idea is a good one along with explaining to siblings.

Floisme I don't particularly agree with the 'double shift' idea but it can grate a bit when GPs refuse to help. Particularly if they've said this before the baby is even born in a kind of 'you're on your own on this one' way. And then they watch you struggling ( because we all struggle at some point) and stick steadfastly to their decision not to help. So I can see where the OP is coming from on this point.

Flo nobody has children for the children's sake - they do it because they want them. Its therefore unfair to say that because parents have brought you up you are then obligated to them regardless of whether they've helped you out or been supportive in other ways.

My parents are fantastic, I would do anything for them, but I know plenty of people who have irritating, selfish, interfering parents - I don't think I'd jump to volunteer to help some of them.

I don't think that the providing child-care is the main issue here either.
All these people have moved further away from you and in some cases nearer to other relatives and yet expectations are that you are bearing most of the burden. There may be other ways you can help from a distance e.g. doing grocery orders on the internet and having them delivered. Perhaps you and SIL (or sisters) could take it in turns to do this task?
It may also be possible for someone to come in and help with household duties. We have elderly relatives who have cleaners coming once a week for example or people to tend their gardens. If this is the type of task that you and DH are doing at the moment that could well help. If they refuse this type of help then I would remind them of your own health issues, your children's needs and the fact that there are also your OHs parents to support as well.

You can't continue this. It's just not on for you do these long journeys, not fair on you, your dh or your kids.

You need to have a chat with everyone and state what you can do. How often you can visit, organise delivered shoppinv, cleaner etc.
But then it's up to your parents and sisters to make it work.

Actually it's mostly up to the parents to make it work.

how old are the 'pensioners' in question?
have they asked you to do this amount of 'caring' ?
if they can cope (and would if you weren't available) let them get on with it with outside help if they need it do not feel guilty.
Sadly dementia can make people more demanding and obstinate than they would normally be.

I would make a positive decision to stay 7 hours away from ageing parents. Esp as DM is near SIL.

Just stay away and in time they will arrange carers/ care home or whatever, or maybe the DSis will step up, and you can still visit 3 or 4 times a year.

It is dodgy pushing people to move. You might get harangued ever more for 'making' them move somewhere they find they don't like.

the reason for asking the age of the parents is because the OP needs to see how many years she will have keep on doing what she is currently doing.

I assume they brought the op up? I didn't realise you had to put in a 'double shift' before you qualified for assistance.

So by that logic, then it is now the op's turn to bring up her children.

YANBU

As PP have said several practical issues here with the subtext of I suppose an understandable irritation that you as a parent of young children could benefit from a bit of help and no one is bothering to offer or consider this

Unfortunately I believe you have caused this issue by being overly helpful therefore all other family members presuming you are either delighted or at a minimum prepared under duress to shoulder the burden

You need to stop doing it - then they and other family members will be forced to find other solutions

Cut back on the number of times you visit both parents to half of what you do - do not allow yourself to get overly entangled in the day to day running of their lives etc it's tough but you really need to do it

I do think siblings/parents being a bit selfish putting on you knowing that you have young children and that you have a medical condition that means you cannot drive - sadly even loved family members can on occasion be quite selfish

I would feel a responsibility to make sure they had the appropriate care packages if they needed them and were unable to organise themselves (home help etc).

Other than that while they choose to live far away from family support they need to understand you cannot regularly visit. Do not feel guilty for their decisions, they must have known it would come to this eventually.

Thanks - good for me to see the different viewpoints. It is very useful.

My parents are in their early 60's and are very anti-help (apart from me it would seem). They changed GP last year because I rang and had a chat about my concerns. GP was vaguely helpful without breaking confidentiality, but parents took it very personally and saw it as a breach in trust. Dad has only admitted DM's issues properly in the last 18 months, despite it having been noticeable for at least 3 years. I tried to arrange some respite care (two mornings a week at a local centre with craft and cooking that DM enjoys) but this was rejected. And they really did write the original manual for stubborn, so I think if I didn't go, they would not capitulate and would end up in more of a state. And I feel crap enough without their blood on my hands.

I don't really expect my sisters to get involved. And neither do I think they have a greater duty to step in because they are childless. But I think it's a little pertinent because I sometimes feel I have been ground down with childrearing and that this has made me more vulnerable to the demands of others. But that is my issue, not theirs. And perhaps they would not be similarly crushed by kids anyway!

Social contract: well this is my view. Not a tit for tat, counting of favours - but more a general philosophy of mutual aid and being able to rely on one another. Real social security. I have never expected our parents to look after our children while we go to work. But perhaps at some point in our lives, they may have babysat one evening or come to a hospital appt with me to hold the baby during my check up. I was seriously ill after DD was born. DH took 6 months off work to look after DS and DD and I went to chemo in a taxi or with a friend who took a day off work. No parent ever stepped in to help with the DC or to come with me to appointments. And I continue to be a bit bitter about it. I don't think I expected too much. And so it rankles to have so much demanded of me now.

I don't mind helping MIL so much. It is nearer, she is a pleasure to visit and has a nice relationship with DC. SIL probably bothers me because of the situation with my own parents. It is unfair of me.

I would love to stop going to my parents, but I find them a little intimidating, I worry about the consequences and also that I might be being unfair because of what happened during my period of illness.

goodness - early 60s is not 'elderly' to most of that generation although the dementia would make a differance.
I am 70 and manage my house and garden on my own as well as taking time out to help with my close family when needed. I dread the day I have to ask for help but stubborn enough to keep going until I really cannot manage (when the last person I would ask is any member of my family).
OP - I admire you for taking on this responsibility but unless your parents are seriously 'fragile' and cannot manage with outside help you are looking at maybe 20 years of being at their beck and call.

I've already talked to my mother about moving somewhere slightly more accessible. It turns out she can't quite afford the (nearby) big town I suggested (and her village isn't too bad). Nevertheless, her village is covered by home grocery delivery, she has local friends AND she's definitely not moving further away....soooo... she's being a lot more responsible than your parents and ILs, OP!

Been there

This is where you sit down with them and say right, they're needing looking after now, it's too much for you, so lets look at the options. You can offer this (ie visit three weekly or monthly). They need to top this up with:

• buying in home care
• talking to social services/GP about support (and YOU being very clear that you giving weekend care and dashing 3 hours to emergencies is NOT an option; one family member assured his services that we would do this so they didn't need to provide him with the alternatives they'd come to offer him)
• moving nearer to support
• considering sheltered housing or a retirement community.

The ball needs to go into their court, it's their decision to make, but if you go on doing it you will be the most comfortable option. We had to say no (and felt horrible about it) but once we'd established what we could offer and what the gaps were, they organised home care and later chose a retirement home and were much happier with their lives once they'd done so. Hanging on to us was resisting admitting their needs had changed.

Other family members can't be made to step up, if they wanted to do it they would. Some may kick off though if PiL/DPs situation changes because you are no longer prepared to keep everyone's status quo going at all costs to yourself - your response to that includes offering a grip.

It seems a one way street with your parents.

I think you keep the door open "if you move closer such as x or y (easily accessible for you) then I can carrying on visiting otherwise I'm going to be cutting back to twice a year"

They have proved already that they are going to fight you every step of the way and not listen/pay heed/worth WITH you. Stop killing yourself trying...

They are expecting too much from you. Too much, anyway, but especially considering this:

DH took 6 months off work to look after DS and DD and I went to chemo in a taxi or with a friend who took a day off work. No parent ever stepped in to help with the DC or to come with me to appointments

Knowing how ill you were, they did nothing to help? And now, even when you are still affected by eg not being able to drive, not only are they expecting too much, they are making it so much harder by being further away and changing GPs so you can't speak to them?

You are going to have to be blunt. You have other responsibilities and unless they make it easier for you to help them, then you will not be able to help. How can they be upset at that when they have demonstrated that they do not think helping family is important enough for them to do

I don't think they owed it to you to help you with your DC. But you were ill, and they did not help you. And now they want your help? No. Your DC have to come first.

Your father is early 60's so I'm assuming highly capable. If he won't entertain help from outside, please take a step back. You are only one of your parents' children and the one with both a medical condition and 2 dependants. It may be worth sending a letter or email to your sisters with your concerns - being careful how you word it in case they show it to your df. They, too can step in if they want.

Ditto your pils.

Blimey, your last post OP - I am not liking the sound of it!

"I would love to stop going to my parents, but I find them a little intimidating, I worry about the consequences"

"My parents are in their early 60's and are very anti-help (apart from me it would seem)."

"And they really did write the original manual for stubborn, so I think if I didn't go, they would not capitulate and would end up in more of a state. And I feel crap enough without their blood on my hands"

You NEED to step back from these people, for the good of your own health. What consequences could they possibly visit upon you? Why do you feel 'crap enough'? What do you mean by blood on your hands? Are they manipulating you to support them, and how?

THEY MOVED AWAY. Their choice. You do not owe it to them to facilitate their bad choices. And frankly, you are entitled to feel bitter about their lack of help when you were so ill. Take that bitterness out and give it a polish every time they want you to do something for them. It will help you to say 'no'. I think that's a word they need to hear. You need to be with your family, at home, living your life.

I find it shocking that your parents did not help you when you were so ill. I can't imagine not helping one of my children in that situation. If I were you, that would really affect the sense of obligation I felt toward them.
I hope you are better now and that your prognosis is good.

Just wanted to say OP, it must have been bet disappointing when both sets of grandparents moved away when you were pregnant.

Lots of good advice on here. Give yourself a break, you deserve a rest.

What's the problem? Just say no. They did. They'll have to buy in care and if they choose not to that's their choice (usually cost related!). What possible consequence could there be that would be less favourable to you than them, other than the old chestnut of inheritance.

"I'm a bit hmm at this line of reasoning that if parents don't help with their grandchildren, you're under no obligation to help them. I assume they brought the op up? I didn't realise you had to put in a 'double shift' before you qualified for assistance."

Tired of hearing this kind of thing on here. They are family for gods sake. You can shout about how they don't have to help as much as you like. It doesn't stop it from being any less pathetic when parents refuse to help their own children when they are able to.

Your last post is pretty alarming op they've got some brass neck if they won't help you through chemo but expect you to go running to them.

If they are in their 60s that's not particularly old. Your dad should be pretty capable of shopping etc. I've seen the "I couldn't ask strangers to look after your dad / mow the lawn / clean the house" routine before. The expectation was that family did it.

Back off now while your dad can cope. If they can't cope when you back off now it will be a disaster in 5 years time when they really do need help.