Is it too early to chat about billionaires hoarding land and avoiding paying inheritance tax?

[feellikeahugefailure]

I know it involves a death and that's very sad for the family, but irrespective of that I do think inherited unearned assets is huge reason for inequality. The UK ranks badly for equality.

Despicable thread.

Blyton - I don't quite understand your point about paying tax on investments (but that is probably my fault!). I just don't automatically believe that high tax rates on earned income and investments are acceptable, but that somehow a totally unearned amount of hundreds of thousands of pounds should be untaxed just because it has been inherited. As somebody else pointed out, the argument that tax has already been paid on an inherited amount doesn't work because most of the time it is a sum that has been made out of unearned property price increases on a primary residence. I also think that with house price increases the inequality is growing, with many working people now finding it impossible to buy a house compared to those who simply inherit money from property-owning families. To me it is not about envy, but about designing a fairer tax system that doesn't just rely on working people and ignore the vast amounts that are passed - untaxed - from one generation to another.

But I do appreciate that I am in the minority in this country and that my views would be unpopular with the electorate!

Yes.
Not sure how old the other children are but his son is only 24. Yesterday his father died. I saw the article on the inheritance in the Guardian and thought it was incredibly distasteful.

That's a great point OurBlanche

There are no posts on this thread actually criticising the DoW or his family. It has turned into a general discussion about IHT. But if the thread title is offending people I think that for me it is best not to post on it any more, and to wait until somebody starts another thread that is not in any way implicating a family that has just lost a much loved member.

distasteful thread.

And to the poster who said hmrc don't know where his assets are, that implies he was a tax evader. On no evidence at all. Given that he was a UK resident and therefore paid tax on his worldwide income, 99% of it based in the uk, that's a pretty serious allegation against someone who just died. Also distasteful.

Thanks. I am a socialist at heart... lower case 's'... but Socialism leaves me cold.

As do threads like this. This man was a great socialist, a lifelong philanthropist, he died unexpectedly and young. Yet all some people want to moan about is that he was rich. Yes, he was, and he made fucking good use of his short life and all that money... the % he inherited and the % he worked hard to grow, earn, invest and give away!

He did what many whinging posters only ever talk about!

It's always the have nots that seem to have an issue with this sort of thing. I'm sure they'd be less happy about giving a chunk of money away if they had a huge windfall coming their way.

The economics of greed are distasteful at the best of times but this thread today makes me despair.

I bet my life that the 'it's not fair' brigade on this thread would not wish for more equality if they were on the receiving end of a big fat inheritance.

The DoW has done a fantastic job managing the family estate and being very involved in lots of charities, he's not been sitting around sucking on that old silver spoon for the last 50 years.

It's not the 'have nots' it's the 'have a bit, would like more and resent those who haves' you only have to look at socialists like Neil Kinnock happily trousering a millionish a year to see that

For what it's worth, I would actually inherit a few hundred thousand tax free if something happened to my parents right now. I still feel that is unfair when there are many people who are earning, paying tax, and will never be able to buy a property. There are some of us who are prepared to put our money where our political beliefs are!

you only have to look at socialists like Neil Kinnock happily trousering a millionish a year to see that and his political offspring doing the same.
He hates Jeremy Corbyn because he actually does want to redistribute wealth. Bloody hypocrite!

I knew him and I know his children very well. Very distateful thread.

He had his faults but he did his very best, ie mainly employing people he knew were a lot smarter than him to deal with his interests, and getting involved in charities he felt very deeply about. He made sure his children were grounded too. Hugh is very sweet and down to earth. Remember, he's lost his father in all this too.

Don't most aristocrats put their money in trust funds so they can avoid a lot of inheritance tax?

Otherwise if your estate is worth £9billion you'd end up having to pay £4billion(ish) tax. Which would mean you'd have to sell most of the land, etc. And that doesn't seem to happen. Don't they generally come to some arrangement and donate an important painting?

davos you are correct, and part of the role of the tax system is to redress the balance to an extent isn't it?

Go to Killerton House in Devon and read about the owner in the early part of the 20th century. It is a great lesson in why the principals of giving up or breaking up estates are pretty screwed up. The title holder at the time was a Liberal and felt it hypocritical to keep his estate as it went against his political beliefs. He wanted to sell.
However, he was persuaded by his wife not to because she knew any new owner would break up the estate- thereby making hundreds in the local area redundant- and put up the rents for the tenant farmers. So Killerton became one of the first estate given over to the National Trust.
The fall of the great estates due to the hike in inheritance tax benefits few people and devestates the immediate areas that general depend on those estates for employment.

But that probably doesn't matter as long as the envious get to bring down the priviledged.

davos you are correct, and part of the role of the tax system is to redress the balance to an extent isn't it?

I don't that the reason for tax.

And that wasn't my point. My point was the painter I quoted doesn't think she should be entitled to any inheritance or further as she has already been advantaged from her parents financial position.

But surely that's not fair either. If benefitting from inheritance is unfair the any child benefitting from their parents financial position is being unfair to those that have anything.

So if we stop people being able to inherit, we should also stop people spending their money on their kids above the bare minimum.

I totally agree with inheritances tax and kind of think it should be taxed more heavily. I don't think inheritance itself is a bad thing. It's not fair, but that doesn't make it bad.

What an appalling thread. He's barely cold.

Why would anyone want to enjoy the fruits of life, by working hard & handing it all over on their death to the taxman, having done their best for their family. Tall poppy syndrome at its worst

I always thought he seemed ok. He owns land where I I live and approved plans for a shopping centre about 30 years ago as long s the area around it reverted to grass and open space.

"Unless we become a communist state (and probably not even then) some will have more than others."
High ranking members of the communist party, be it in Soviet Russia, East Germany, North Korea etc lived/live in luxury, - presumably they are aware of their hypocrisy, but who knows.

This same man donated £500,000 to farmers during foot and mouth disease and paid his employees' poll tax! Pick on Premier League footballers earning silly money rather than a kind philanthropist!

I'm sad about the death of Gerald Grosvenor. A man who was dyslexic- not an intellectual. He just wanted to do the best by people and his family. People can throw stones as much as they like but he was well liked by people who actually had dealings with him. I feel sorry for his son- what a burden.

Yes imo it is too soon.

I knew him (very slightly) through work and he seemed very down to earth and pleasant. Also hardworking and ethical. RIP