To have told my mum to F off?

[TheWorriedTalrus]

Yes, probably I am.

To cut a long story short, I was always very academic at school and got into a good university to do a hard subject. Got good grades all the way through until fourth year hit and, although I was still achieving good marks, I decided to take some time out before taking final exams. It's worth saying that I had already completed 2/3 of my degree at this stage so was definitely going to return to do the exams. I also had a grad job offer which I didn't want to lose.

Anyway, one year on and I have a good degree and job starts next month, happy days.

I was talking to my DM about it today (who understandably found this whole time stressful, I returned home etc etc) and she basucally said she avoided seeing friends and family during this period as she didn't want to say anything!! I understand that she wanted to protect my privacy but I actually feel really hurt and offended, as if she's ashamed of me?!

Firstly achievements aren't just academic or about who can get the best job etc! What if I had dropped out?! And secondly I still did have other things going for me - I had done well and there was never any question of me not going back into study or work.

I actually told her to F off. Which makes me horrible and which she took badly

But I am so hurt to feel like such a disappointment to her! I was always brought up to be a bit of a people-pleaser and she is not from this country, and pretty reserved when it comes to huge displays of pride or emotion. She is very supportive and loving and kind but has never been the type to say "I'm so proud of you" or "I love you" or just hug me or whatever.

Who ibu?

Yes i would be ashamed of the sort of person that would tell their mother to fuck off. Thats appalling.

I appreciate she got to you, but you're a grown woman, just tell her she's upsetting you and to please stop. You don't need to behave like a spoilt teenager.

Fair enough, I was unreasonable, I admit it. Yes the swearing was awful.

It was said in anger and yes far from my finest hour. But I'm sure you've said things you regret too...no?

So, you already know you were unreasonable and rude.

I think the key point here is that you are not responsible for how your Mum reacts.

So if she avoided seeing friends and family etc, that is her choice and her problem. She shouldn't try to make your feel bad about it.

I can see how her doing that would be upsetting for you, and I do think you have grounds to articulate that to her. My guess is she is very proud of you, but doesn't say it / show it as much or in the ways you would like. You can say that to her too.

Swearing at her is maybe a bit much. Could you go and apologise for the swearing, but explain why you were so upset that you did: that you felt she was ashamed of you / unsupportive?

PP have said offering an explination could have been a problem for her. I don't see why. Actually I think one of the challenges of being a parent to an adult child is understanding that they now deserve their privacy, in particular not to have repeated what is going on in their lives around your friends and acquantiences, if you would rather they weren't.

I have young children and I am conscious that I discuss, their very personal details with friends and family. But I am also conscious that as they grow older I will do less and less of this. My mum hasn't learned this lesson and so I don't share with her things that I want to stay private.

There was a thread on here a while ago about whether a grandparent has the right to know her granddaughter has started her periods. My answer to that: not if the granddaughter doesn't want her to, no.

Does no one else feel hurt though when their mother constantly criticises rather than praises? I feel like I've done very well (I am the only one of my group of friends with a grad job, which I had to work bloody hard for) and yet she only ever focuses on the negatives. I don't understand what purpose it serves bringing it all up now.

I was very upset and quite angry and I just snapped. It was bad. I admit.

If it makes you feel better, OP, I discovered my mum actually lied to her friends about which uni I'd got into! It had just gained 'university' status after being a polytechnic, and has since gained a really good reputation, but back then, it was far from being the best! My mum 'accidentally' told a few people I was studying at another uni nearby (older, better known). I remember a really awkward convo with one of these pals, followed by a rather angry confrontation with my mum. All is forgiven now, but she still claims she just got 'confused' when her friends asked where I was studying. Hmmmmm.....

It was awful but it was the final straw. I definitely don't habitually swear at her! I had a pretty strict upbringing. I just snapped as her attitude really hurts me sometimes.

Ok it's maybe not your finest hour but I know exactly where you're coming from. My mother thinks I'm worthless because I'm not an academic high flyer. It's soul destroying. I think people with "normal" families vastly underestimate the damage that criticism like that can do. Yanbu to feel hurt by that and you have no reason to feel ashamed.

Get some counselling to help you work through your mum issues. It won't improve her, but it will boost your resilience.

Thanks. The thing is, it was a real blow to me too because I have akways (rightly or wrongly) taken pride in being pretty good academically. Not that that is probably good for self-esteem... And then one hiccup in 15 years following straight A*s, good uni blah blah and she's talking about how she avoided friends and family for 18 months!! Even now I have picked myself up off the ground, going into a good job and 2.1 firmly in the bag!

at your mum, Jess! OP, I can understand why you're upset. Swearing at her wasn't ideal, but her going on about how awkward it made her social life that you were having a hard time, does rather give the impression that it's all about her - her standing and her reputation and her discomfort. And I can see how you'd feel sad her response to your success is one of relief rather than pride. That is quite undermining.

So the swearing is a bit unreasonable, but the feelings behind it are totally reasonable. and well done on your degree and job.

Also, OP, do you have children? Because that particular life experience takes The Critical Mum to a whole new level of judgemental!

I don't think saying fuck off is the end of the world - you're an adult, she's an adult and it won't be the first time she's heard the phrase, I'm sure! It's not great but it's also not completely horrendous. I suppose it depends on whether you swear habitually around her or not or whether this was completely out of character.

My mum went off sick with stress some years ago from her position as a senior partner in a law firm. She was signed off for 2 years and eventually got paid off, and then didn't work for a further 3 years. Once it sank in that she was never going to return to that job/type of job, my grandma admitted to not having told anyone in the wider family that Mum had been off work because she was worried about what they would think. Mum was furious - her mother thought her worth was defined by the "importance" of her job. So I can see how hurtful your mum's comments have been.

I think you were probably being unreasonable to tell her to fuck off and an apology is in order for that, however I don't think you were being unreasonable to be upset with your mum.

Maybe at the time she was worried that you weren't going to go back and wasn't comfortable talking about it - some people find it surprisingly difficult to just be straight about things and not care what others think.

I remember years ago when I suffered with depression and I ended up dropping out of uni. I was not in a good place and didn't have a job. My nan told me that she'd bumped into one of her friends who - after bragging that her grandson had just qualified as a pilot - had asked how I was doing and what I was up to, and she "didn't know what to tell them"

I was offended at the time but she was a bit of a Hyacinth Bouquet type and thought she was a bit posher than what she really was. I don't really think she was ashamed of me, with her circle of friends they were all for getting one up on each other and bragging about their extremely talented grandchildren - I just can't imagine that she'd ever have said "well actually she's had a bit of a breakdown and has no idea what she's doing with her life" and be ok with just stating the facts as they were.

Didn't mean she was ashamed of me, we talked about it some time later and she was just really worried about me and my future at the time. Maybe that's similar to how your mum was feeling? You probably both need a bit of a heart to heart on how you're both feeling?

You didn't say in your OP that she "constantly criticises rather than praises". In fact you said "she is very supportive and loving and kind".

Sounds like a bit of drip feeding / back pedalling / self justification to me OP

I should imagine the fact that she didn't complete her own degree made her even more anxious that you were going to do the same. Seeing our own less desirable traits/mistakes/failings in our kids is worse than seeing any others, I think.

Still, while she needs to understand why you felt hurt, I do think a heartfelt apology is in order for the eff off. I hope she'll be happy with that! If I'd ever said that to my mother I honestly don't think she'd ever have spoken to me again. Mind you, mine was the type where you only had to twitch an eyebrow the wrong way and she'd be upset and have a 'face' on for days.

OK you have acknowledged you shouldn't have told her to fuck off - so that's covered.

I actually think she was being unfair. She told you it was your fault she couldn't socialise with people for that period of time. If the people she wanted to see would have been judgemental about your decisions, then that's their problem - they don't sound very nice.

I have two sons, only one has a degree and it is a 2.2 (like mine was). Do I not socialise with my friends whose sons have both got firsts? Of course not! Am I disappointed with my sons for not getting firsts - of course not!

What is it with people? Cherish your children for who they are and be proud of them for what they are. My friends wouldn't dream of "showing off" because they have clever sons - and they haven't shown the least sign of being judgemental about mine - that's called being a decent human being.

OK the swearing was a bit OTT but like Bipbip, I understand your frustration.

It seems to me that you can turn this to a real positive, however. on your degree, your job and all of those A*s in the past. Be pleased for yourself and next time, don't be caught unawares - as you were this time - if your Mum has her own agenda, and doesn't recognise things in the same way as you. Well done, by the way, for recognising that you needed to take time out and having the courage to organise it, rather than just pushing forward with your life plan when you realised that you weren't in the right place. That, actually, is a big achievement, which it would have been easy to duck out of. You are clearly able to recognise your own needs and able to make healthy decisions for yourself.

So, time to apologise to your mum for swearing, but not to regret the frustration behind it. That was real - she was BVU and melodramatic. However, there is a useful lesson in that. You have become your own person, whereas she may well be stuck in a rut as "proud mummy of successful student", and you will need to a) make choices for yourself and not worry about her reactions b) cut her some slack if she doesn't say/think the right thing.

As someone who is just five years or so away from that stage I hope that I can be a bit more self reflective than your mum, and am very glad that I have MN to help me to manage my relationship with my post teen children as carefully as the toddler years/teen years.

As someone who still gets frustrated with her own mum, who was clearly relieved to get me safely through life's hurdles and has never heard a thing I have said since, and spectacularly refuses to see things from other people's point of view, I get where you are coming from. My survival mantra is that I am responsible for my reactions: I can't change hers. I try to see the good in her, and distance myself from the neediness, with which I cannot compete.

HTH

When my DD dropped out of uni with anorexia I also isolated myself from friends and family. Not because I was ashamed of her but because I was worried sick about her and would cry If I was unexpectedly asked about her. That was embarrassing and also a downer at parties. Also fed up of having to explain it over and over again to people who just didn't get it - 'what do you mean she won't eat, just give her a pie'. Also couldn't cope with people telling me their stories about relations who had miraculously overcome anorexia - I didn't care about them, I didn't want to hear their stories, I only cared about my DD. My concerns and fears for her health were so overwhelming I didn't have any headspace for chit-chat and social niceties.

My reasons for isolating myself were many and varied but I don't think shame was one of them. I wonder why you assumed that was your mums reason? I wonder if there is a part of you that deep down feels some shame over your problems and so is hyper-sensitive to any hint of shame from her?

Like you my DD recovered, finished her degree and has a good graduate job. You should both be very proud of yourselves. To get a degree at all is a great achievement and even more so if you had personal difficulties.

It is sad that your mum is not the sort of mum to feel or show positive feelings towards you, but just the fact you can talk about difficult times is a good thing and shows more of a bind than meaningless platitudes might.

Of course it wasn't OK to swear at her. You know that already but it isn't the end of the world.. When the time is right, take her some flowers, make a sincere apology and move on. You are a big girl now and you don't need her approval for everything.

If your parents are anything like mine, appearances are everything. They feel that your children are a reflection of your upbringing. Whilst you were doing everything you were supposed to be doing, they could show you off. But going off track, they felt embarrassed as if they themselves have done something wrong.

I have 1 DS who has dropped out and is struggling to get into work, and one who has done 3 1/2 years of a degree, was diagnosed with psychosis and is probably not going to finish his degree.

It is very stressful indeed. I thought they would have been off my hands by now, but I am supporting them psychologically and financially.

The Competitive Mums with DC who sail through everything still exist. Their DC are all busy with jobs and children and doing wonderful things . It is very hard to come up with answers to them that will keep them quiet/not give them something to gloat over/are vaguely truthful for those that actually care. Family sort of say the right things, then back off. I am pissed off with the lot of them and just go out with my friends who like doing things together.

I had a year where everything seemed to be going in the right direction and I was starting a new post-children relationship with DH and there was a future.

Now, I am back to a houseful, cooking and cleaning and trying to get them to grow up and do it or at least see their roll as adults and contributing, whilst being mindful of MH issues and other sensibilities. It is like a black cloud. My relationship with DH (who is now having health issues) has suffered because we don't know how to talk about it any more - we have done it all round and round in circles.

Children are a big part of your life even when they are adults and if life is not going in the right direction, it is painful and you are powerless to help without any direction from the DC. Parents are not mindreaders.

Just buy your mum some flowers and tell her you are sorry for swearing at her . These things need to be talked about, but you need to recognise that there are difficulties all round in these situations. I am sure she will be very happy for you when she has got the stress out of her system.

Thanks, some really, really lovely and thoughtful posts here! Just reading them all now, great advice too.

BitOutOf - no I'm not back-pedalling. She criticises a lot and it is her way. Underneath all this, yes, she is kind, loving and supportive but no she does not expressly say she is proud. It is always, oh couldn't you have done it like this/why didn't you do this/I wouldn't have done that. She has very high standards.

I think YABU. Sounds to me like you've been so used to being praiseworthy and 'good' in your mother's eyes that you can't stand the thought of being less than perfect. Admittedly she sounds obsessed by 'What will people THINK?' too, but then I imagine that hasn't had quite such an impact on your before this as you've always been a well-behaved high-achiever. Well, you're finding out what happens if you fall below that ideal of hers. It's not nice, but it can hardly be a total shock to you. Don't you know your mum at all?

My mother was shallow like this, and I was a 'good' child who did everything right. The difference is, I knew that all it took would be the slightest wobble for me to be a huge disappointment to her. You sound like you're only just discovering this now, which makes me wonder how well you know her tbh. YABU just for that IMO.

Well, no, LaContessa because this is the first wobble! I didn't have a clue because it hadn't happened before.