Neighbour with dementia

[Mummyto2bubs]

So... Don't want to be hated here, but just wondering AIBU? NDN has dementia. Wife has generally been lovely and always said to tell her if any problems. Well, we have had numerous problems, such as NDN trying to enter our house uninvited, standing in front of our car bonnet as we are trying to leave the drive, refusing to move, being very insistent that our children chat to him despite them being quite frightened of him (I have not encouraged them with this, they just find him a bit too pushy). On one occasion DH spoke to his wife to say we had had a problem with him leaning on our car as we were trying to drive out of our drive. Anyway, tonight DH came down the stairs from putting DC to bed to find him peering in and knocking constantly on our porch window (you can see right in through our house this way), so he went to speak to his wife, and said as politely as he could that this was not ok and was very invasive. She responded very aggressively and slammed the door on him. Now I get this bit, and understand her defensive reaction, but she is not one to back down and apologise. Are we BU to not be happy with this behaviour or should www just accept it as he has dementia? We both feel very guilty, but have had various things happen for at least 2 years, and find the lack of privacy really difficult, especially when it impacts our DC.

I'm sorry, I couldn't get past this: "I feel sorry for his wife, I really do, but this has made our life really hard at times." I can't believe that you would describe this as making your life hard and compare yourself to his wife in the same sentence. That is incredibly lacking in empathy and compassion.

It is her choice if she puts him in a home. She may not do, it isn't compulsory. It can take 10 years to go from wandering to dead, this could go on a while.

If it's bothering you that much call the Police as you would for anyone else exhibiting unreasonable behaviour.

I'm sorry silverduck if that has come across like that. I'm not comparing us. I can feel sorry for someone at the same time as acknowledging that something is difficult for me. I am also somewhat still in shock at having been shouted at tonight. She has always told us how pleased she is to have us as neighbours and how supportive we have been. I don't think that that means we should just accept all the behaviour that impacts on ours, and our children's, lives.
I know it is her choice regarding the care home. I have NEVER told her she should do that! I also would not go to the police! I find that a ridiculous suggestion and think you are taking the p* out of me because you think I've said something wrong. We have tried to speak to her, as she had asked us to, because we found something a problem.

Do they have children? Could you contact them & let them know what's going on?

Re the wife next door, I guess she's under enormous pressure, so you should cut her some slack. Perhaps offer some help, but with very firm boundaries of what you would (not) do and don't feel guilty if you're asked to do more than that

Speaking from experience she is probably trying to cope and isn't but is too ashamed to admit it. Next time it happens call the police. They will then get social services involved who will end up assessing situation and getting support in. My FIL "coped" with MIL who had dementia and would not listen to us. It was the neighbours calling the police which took the situation out of his hands which prompted appropriate help.

Haven't RTFT but I'd report him to safeguarding if you haven't already. He's a danger to himself out wandering. My nanna had Alzheimer's and was a terrible night time wanderer - I'm surprised she didn't end up getting mugged tbh. She was always found by nice people who took her to the police station because she didn't know where she lived.

Yanbu for being upset about how this is impacting on your lives but I feel incredibly sorry for his poor wife. You don't know how difficult he may be to live with-some sufferers become physically abusive having always been kind, gentle people. It sounds like you've tried to support her op.

You're not heartless op, I work with people with dementia and it is very hard work and if this has been going on for 2 years, as his disease progresses his behaviour will only get worse. Sadly a lot of people become dangerous to themselves and others, and I believe eventually his wife will have no choice but to put him in a home as some dementia sufferers can carry on for 10+ years just deteriorating it's so awful and she must really be struggling especially if he has started to become violent as many do.

But, I can understand how his behaviour will be unnerving to you and your DC. Next time I think non emergency police is the best solution, for you but for her aswell.

I think you are being judgy: She is really struggling and tells us that frequently, but she wants him to be happy and so wants to keep him at home. We get that, but feel it has gone beyond her capability.

That aside, I wasn't taking the piss with saying about going to the police, if someone is looking in your window, obstructing the car, scaring the children and trying to get in your house you need to call the police. It isn't ridiculous at all.

The trouble is he won't be bad enough to be sectioned, he won't be bad enough to be forced into a home and his wife won't be allowed to deprive him of liberty by locking him in. The Police talking to them might work.

If you stop engaging with them at all he might stop coming over to you. I would explain to your children what is wrong with him, they must find it all very strange.

I work with people and their families living with Dementia in Scotland and if I was in your situation I would phone the Duty Social Worker number to discuss what was happening.

Why on earth did you take your children with you when you "went round to apologise" ?

You aren't heartless. The pressure dementia causes for those around a sufferer is unrelenting and chronic. His wife will be at her wits end and feeling sad and frustrated and guilty- in my experience. I had a close relative who I was the only relative for, who had it. It was awful.

I did all of his shopping and washing, he had carers twice a day and I called in every day but he would ring sometimes 30+ times a day. He was continually being found in the town unable to get home and I would get phone calls and have to go and collect him and take him home and settle him. DH ws great with him but it got to the point where we were being phoned through the night to go and get him. He knocked on neighbours doors at all hours and they started to get frustrated at us. He regularly had falls and got got urine infections and became incontinent and was taken into hospital about 8 times in a year.
It felt like no one could help. The hospital said he was still able to make decisions- he wasn't, he would say whatever anyone encouraged him to say. It was a vicious circle of repeated patterns and I got to the point where I considered just saying I wasn't doing anything else because I knew it would all fall apart within a day if I did. I dreaded the phone ringing, started to resent going round because I didn't know what I would find. The bureaucracy of it all was terrible. It was all exhausting.
It took a year for them to decide he wasn't able to make the decision- by then he was removing all of his clothes in shops and in church or wherever he was. I had Power of Attorney which kicked in at that point. He is in a home now and has deteriorated to the point where he is unable to do anything at all and recognises no one. He was such a vibrant, intelligent, kind person but that person has gone.
It is a horrible disease and very very hard to live with. Hard for his wife but hard for others close to them- physically or emotionally close. Do they have children? He may have a social worker, you could speak to social services or his GP and see if they can offer some help and support to him and his wife. His wife will be strugglng to accept that he might not be able to remain at home and probably feels very guilty.

The alzheimers society have a great forum - Talking point. Join and post on there (but do give it a sympathetic slant to your neighbours' own situation). They will advise you well, I'm sure.

Tamzin, I took my children when I "went to apologise" because I have them with me full time other than when I am at work. DH works very long hours and I thought this was better not left to stew.
Thanks everyone else for your advice. Some very good suggestions there. I will discuss them with DH. We have always got on really well with NDN and really don't want to fall out with them. We are trying our best. For those who think we are being judgy/nasty, we are trying to handle our own lives, which are stressful enough, without making theirs difficult too. It's not easy.

I do feel for you Op . Dementia is so cruel and the affects on all concerned are awful .

I don't think you are heartless or judgey . It's not a competition as to who this affects most and therefore you can't have a moan because you aren't as affected as his wife . It's a case of the dementia affecting all of you , some more than others , which you have acknowledged.

I'm sorry you're getting stick from posters who seem to think you are responsible for these neighbours, which is what they are at the end of the day.

You sound very caring but I would try to take a step back, and contact social services as has been suggested.

Whatever her stress, his wife has no right to be screaming at you. Your poor kids having to deal with this, never mind you and your husband.

You definitely have to explain to your kids in an age-appropriate way what is going on when you say this
We haven't explained to them that he is ill, but it is certain aspects of his behaviour that my DD gets frightened of, such as 'growling' at her, and when she runs away into the house, he tries to follow her in.
This is very frightening for a child.

I also gave up work (as a pp poster mentioned) to take care of my mum with dementia, while being a single parent too. It is SO hard to deal with.

But you are a family and you owe it to yourselves and your kids to put them first. It's their peace of mind growing up you are dealing with.

If I were you I would be bombarding SS, my GP (in how it affects me and my family) and any and every other agency out there that can help.

Good luck!

P.s. I mention the GP cos he will be able to find out who their GP is and get the appropriate response going I presume, I don't live in UK and I have a walk-in surgery

Calling the non emergency line for your local police wouldn't be a bad idea you know OP.

Carefully explain the problems you are having, explain also that you feel communications have broken down (due to stress) and explain that you are worried about the neighbor's safety, you're kids well being, the neighbor's wife and the whole situation. They'll neither laugh at you OR turn up like the Sweeney with lights flashing. Their job is to advise you on the phone and help practically if possible.

At the end of the day something's got to change. You can't all go on like this.

One other thing, the couple of times i've called the non-emergency line it's turned out that i've not been the first, IYSWIM? You may find other neighbors have talked to them about this man already, and your call, with you being so affected, may be the one which finally starts a ball rolling.

With our neighbour, the police did contact social services, who eventually came round. I spoke to his social worker, who said that as he refused to move into the sheltered accommodation they had found for him, there was nothing more they could do. He didn't want to go into sheltered accommodation, he wanted to go into a nursing home "so that he could be looked after" in his words.

Feel sorry for the wife, by all means, but the utter, utter hell of living next to someone with dementia cannot be underestimated.

Oh OP you're clearly not heartless and you've clearly tried.
If she won't work with you anymore then I think you need to start keeping a log of everything he does and escalating to the duty SW and/or non emergency police when necessary.
You will feel horrid for doing so, I know, but actually this situation is causing you significant stress now, is clearly doing even more so to his wife and the poor gentleman is not being kept safe anymore.

Maybe the wife is also starting to suffer from dementia. When my uncle had dementia my aunt was struggling to cope and it was put down to stress and depression but it is now obvious that she is also suffering from dementia and we got a formal diagnosis a few months ago.

I have found it incredibly hard to get support. She tells professionals she is happy and coping and they just accept that. They aren't the neighbours getting disturbed or me getting hysterical phone calls on a daily basis that last for hours. I am hundreds of miles away and visit when I can but I have a family and can't just move. We tried to move her closer to us but she backed out.

It is hard for you but it is incredibly hard for his wife. There really isn't an easy answer.

Just wanted to add do call the duty social worker. I have asked my aunt's neighbours to do it and they are reluctant as people feel guilty doing it but I so wish they would. I am starting to feel that the SW thinks I am the problem and a bit of support from other people who know whats going on would be a tremendous help.

Why on earth are people being so awful to the OP? You have no duty of care to the neighbour and from what I've read been over and above with your support so far. It's likely to have been said already but if you do phone social work they will unlikely tell you anything due to strict confidentiality guidelines but hopefully will contact the NDN. It's hard though as they could still state alls ok and decline intervention.

I have every sympathy. Dementia can put a real strain on neighbours as well as family. The trouble is, someone with dementia is never going to remember that he/she must not do this or that, and may well get nasty or aggressive if anyone tries to prevent them from doing what they want. (I speak from experience - have had 2 close family members with it).

It's certainly worth a call to social services if the intrusion is becoming intolerable, but they can't force more help on anyone if they don't want it (pretty common) and in any case it's pretty common for SS to do nothing, or not very much, until there is a real crisis and they don't have much choice.
The poor wife is probably at her wits' end trying to cope with him, but I have often heard of people even right at the end of their tethers refusing to let social services in the door - they are afraid of (as they see it) them prying into their private affairs, or interfering 'for your own good'.

Thanks for all the replies. It seems that a call to SS is what is needed. I have spoken to a friend of theirs who I know quite well and she said she has never known her to behave like this or have a go at anyone. She also said that both the GP and SS have offered a lot more in terms of support but she has refused it all. They do not have children, and the only relative I have ever seen come to visit, I haven't seen for months. So they have literally no support from anyone other than neighbours, and once a week carers.
I don't think she is getting dementia. She certainly seems very on the ball. Her personality has changed beyond recognition but I think that is just the stress.

I was main carer for my mum, who had dementia and then alzheimers. Mum refused to move out of her home. I was spending my days - two hours morning, two hours afternoon to make sure she had dinner and two hours evening at her home. It was bloody hard work! I also had 5 children to care for. I can't count the number of times my children weren't allowed to go to parties, play dates or just out to play with their friends as I had to see to mum. I had neighbours complaining that mum was knocking their doors asking what day it was, she fed the birds several times a day and neighbours complained she was encouraging rats. I had many meetings with social services who refused to put in support as mum was showing sign of independence and was not willing to move from the only home she ever knew. Thankfully there were 2 neighbours who showed nothing but kindness to mum and were really very supportive. The wife in the OP's post is understandably worried, frustrated and at the end of her tether. Living with a person with dementia is absolutely soul destroying. I couldn't have mum to live with me as I had 5 children in a 3 bed house so nowhere for her to sleep. I could not stay with her as I had 5 children to care for and she lived in a 2 bedroom house. One morning I went to mums and she was black and blue all over, her face was a mess. She has obviously fallen during the night. I begged her GP and social worker to put her in a care home where she would be supervised 24 hours a day. They refused as mum still would not leave her home. For the 6 hours a day I spent there I would bathe her, dress her, give her breakfast, give her medication, clean her house, do her washing and ironing, make her dinner, do dishes, make her bed, put her rubbish in the bin and on Monday evening put the bins out for collection (otherwise she wouldn't have done it). She had a fine from the council for putting her bins out on Monday evening instead of Tuesday morning. I also did her shopping, took her for days out, had her stay at mine for the day (so I could spend time with my children). In fact I had to do EVERYTHING for her as she couldn't do anything for herself. Social worker refused to see that mum was a problem. All she kept saying was they are trying to keep people in their own homes instead of going into a care home. I looked after my mum for 8 years. She, eventually, had no choice than to go into a care home when she was found wandering at 4am in her nightie - 26 miles away from her home - and had no idea where she was or how she got there. That was the turning point for me. The point where I had to say I was no longer able to take responsibility for her. She went into a care home, sold her house to cover her costs and died 5 month later. OP you are not responsible for your neighbours well being.