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Original poster

Time off when parent dies

89 replies

Pasithea · 09/08/2016 12:51

Hi

MIL passed away this morning. Due to staff being off. DH work want him in this afternoon and rest of week.
Does anyone know if there is a legal entitlement to leave in these circumstances.

OP posts:
microscope · 09/08/2016 21:14

Condolences for your loss. Your husband should self-certify as sick for a week, and he will get whatever his normal sick pay is - minimum would be nothing for the first 3 days and then SSP.

After a week, he can either go back, request unpaid compassionate leave or try and get his GP to sign him off sick - which isn't, contrary to what many people have said, automatic. I'm a GP and I regularly sign people off after a bereavement when they are unwell due to a grief reaction and unfit for work - but that then generates the appropriate entry in the notes, which could be construed as a past medical history/mental health history etc when applying for insurance etc. I don't sign people off because they need time to sort out the estate etc - that is unpaid leave. He can't possibly know now how he will be feeling in a week's time (sometimes going back to a bit of normality is helpful), so I'd suggest start with the self certificate and play it by ear over the next week.

Hope it all works out ok.

Sunnymeg · 09/08/2016 22:34

MIL died in August two years ago. Staff on holiday, not enough cover etc. They wanted DH back to work. He had to self certify off sick for a couple of days to get time to register the death and arrange the funeral. He went back to work for a few days and then his boss told him he couldn't have the whole day off for the funeral. It made a difficult time a hundred times worse!

ButteredToastAndStrawberryJam · 10/08/2016 06:47

Some people/bosses seem to have lost all sense of decency. They're on a one track coarse to keep production going at what ever the cost. People and bosses are under ridiculous amounts of pressure that just needs to stop, I know it filters down from the top, it's greed.

MrsCampbellBlack · 10/08/2016 06:56

We offer 5 days paid compassionate leave a year.

Do not name your DH's employer in bad way on social media - this would be a serious disciplinary matter for most employers.

I am very sorry for your loss and hope your DH is ok.

pearlylum · 10/08/2016 07:01

buttered toast- it's not all to do with decency.

My OH took a half day off when his father died, it was nothing to do with greed. People deal with bereavement in different ways.

ButteredToastAndStrawberryJam · 10/08/2016 07:21

Pearly I'm on the workers side, people should be allowed to have all the time they need and more IMO when dealing with bereavement, I'm talking about bosses that don't care about their employees. Greed from the bosses or higher up pushing for targets etc.

JessieMcJessie · 10/08/2016 07:28

My Mum lived at the other end of the country from me. When I got the call to say she had taken a turn for the worse I literally dropped everything to be with her and I stayed on up there until after the funeral. It was logistically impossible for me to work, bar monitoring some emails. My work didn't bat an eyelid, yet by the sound of some employers here they'd not have allowed the employee to be away from the workplace to be with a dying parent. I am shocked by this lack of humanity.

WipsGlitter · 10/08/2016 07:31

I am shocked at some of these employers.

fastdaytears · 10/08/2016 07:36

I'm on the workers side, people should be allowed to have all the time they need and more IMO when dealing with bereavement, I'm talking about bosses that don't care about their employees. Greed from the bosses or higher up pushing for targets etc

That's not the reality though is it? Mythical targets? We're a client facing small professional firm. We can't get locums for what we do. It's my business but if I took a month off (paid or unpaid) without cover then we lose clients and everyone's jobs are at risk. Same if I let a key member of staff take a lot of time off at an unplanned time. There's no way of absorbing the work.

fastdaytears · 10/08/2016 07:45

But OP your DH has been treated badly. I can't see how giving him the day off could be disastrous. Is he going to get signed off?

ButteredToastAndStrawberryJam · 10/08/2016 07:57

That's not the reality though is it? Mythical targets? We're a client facing small professional firm. We can't get locums for what we do. It's my business but if I took a month off (paid or unpaid) without cover then we lose clients and everyone's jobs are at risk. Same if I let a key member of staff take a lot of time off at an unplanned time. There's no way of absorbing the work. Have you ever lost anyone very close to you and been devastated by that grief?
Right, so targets and production, money and greed have nothing to do with it. You're just making excuses. waste of time talking to you as you're one of the heartless bosses by the sounds of it!
Oh, and regarding loosing the odd client, so what, you need to take care of your staff!! Your profit will go down slightly, so what, people's well being is more important. What if your employee wasn't able to grieve properly, then ended up having time off for stress etc, you'd have to cover etc then. People aren't robots.

fastdaytears · 10/08/2016 08:05

Bit of an overreaction there I think and a lot of assumptions.

No I'm not talking about losing profit I'm talking about people losing their jobs. Small businesses can fold very quickly and then everyone is out of a job. Not just the person who needed time off.

I am looking after my staff thank you but I have to think of all of them.

fastdaytears · 10/08/2016 08:12

FWIW I have nothing to make excuses for as I've never had to turn down any request for leave for any reason as we all work hard to cover each other. But if I had to in the future then it wouldn't be being heartless or because I think my staff are robots.

FoxesOnSocks · 10/08/2016 08:22

You'd get three days where I work, but these days are subject to management. I've a colleague whose partner gave birth very early and the baby didn't survive he was told he couldn't have any bereavement leave even for the funeral. I don't believe there's any legal entitlement.

JessieMcJessie · 10/08/2016 09:45

fastdaytears I can understand that a request for several weeks' leave might be very disruptive but you wouldn't deny an employee the possibility of rushing to the bedside of a dying parent and having a week or so off to cope with initial grief and arrange the funeral, would you?

All businesses face the risk of the employee suddenly being unavailable for work, specifically if he or she is taken ill/has an accident and is literally incapable of working. That's what business interruption and key man insurance, as well as general risk management procedures, are there for- to minimise the impact of sudden disruption. The death of a parent is life- shattering and not really subject to negotiation, in that regard it's no different to the employee suffering an accident themselves.

fastdaytears · 10/08/2016 10:05

fastdaytears I can understand that a request for several weeks' leave might be very disruptive but you wouldn't deny an employee the possibility of rushing to the bedside of a dying parent and having a week or so off to cope with initial grief and arrange the funeral, would you?

Of course not and I never have. But that isn't the same as saying that people should be able to take "all the time they need and more".

JessieMcJessie · 10/08/2016 10:20

Glad to hear it. Your reply being in the context of the very unreasonable stance taken by the OP's DH's employer suggested that you condones it if circumstances at work dictated he was needed.

fastdaytears · 10/08/2016 10:28

My reply was to Butteredtoast

I was very clear that OP's DH was treated badly. It's not a surprise though after how they treated his illness last year.

JessieMcJessie · 10/08/2016 10:31

Yes, that's shocking. I did not know that refusing to pay future sick leave was even legal. If indeed it is.

fastdaytears · 10/08/2016 10:39

Doesn't sound like it should be

purplevase4 · 10/08/2016 10:43

It totally depends on your employer. When my dad died last month I took a day off to do all the admin and another day off for the funeral. My boss said she would have expected me to take 2-3 weeks (and it would have all been paid)! But because I had power of attorney most things were already sorted out. And I work from home, part-time, so my situation was probably quite different to a lot of people's and I kind of worked on half strength for a week.

It's amazing how some employers are so hard-hearted. Sorry for your loss.

Lorelei76 · 10/08/2016 12:41

fastdaytears - I do understand some businesses are operating under those kinds of circs but I often wonder who they get to work for them because that's one reason I would never ever work for such a place again. Even when the boss is decent, if they are running that close to margins, as a worker, you think, shit, what happens when I break my back?! (Okay weird example, but i did exactly that and I was very glad I'd prioritised working for an employer who gave 6 months paid sick leave rather than a smaller employer nearer home).

sorry, that's probably a whole other thread.

that said, I'd question the viability of a business who demanded someone be in the day his mother died. I presume they would simply fold if there was an outbreak of proper flu, for example.

Lorelei76 · 10/08/2016 12:47

Something else I wonder - when companies are operating on these margins, do they say something to staff at interview? I once had "discretionary sick leave" which effectively meant they wouldn't pay you for being ill. I took that job because I had no "fuck off" money in the bank but I left after 3 weeks because I was offered work with a better company.

there was nothing wrong with the salary etc, I just wonder how many interviewees will realise that the pressure is such that it's considered a catastrophe for someone to be ill or need a couple of days off for a bereavement.

OP I hope your DH has had some luck obtaining time off.

ButteredToastAndStrawberryJam · 10/08/2016 13:37

*Bit of an overreaction there I think and a lot of assumptions.

No I'm not talking about losing profit I'm talking about people losing their jobs. Small businesses can fold very quickly and then everyone is out of a job. Not just the person who needed time off.

I am looking after my staff thank you but I have to think of all of them.*

Obviously it's your choice not to the answer the question re grief but the fact is, some people are affected severely by grief, so much so that breathing and putting one foot in front of the other is difficult, never mind dragging yourself into work. What good would they be at work anyway, in a state like that.
Letting go or losing staff=less work/contracts=less profit, is this not correct.
Maybe you should invest in the insurance Jessie suggested.

Doesn't sound like it should be so you're not sure if this is correct or not. Are you quite new to the business of employing people.

fastdaytears · 10/08/2016 13:58

Doesn't sound like it should be so you're not sure if this is correct or not. Are you quite new to the business of employing people

No, I have never wanted to restrict sick pay so have not looked into the legality or illegality of doing that. Why would I have?

You can't get keyman insurance to cover staff being off for bereavement reasons.