To think university is overrated?

[WeAreGypsy]

I did a degree at a normal university, in my early 20s, and although it had its merits I think it was overall an overrated experience.

For this reason I find it hard to recommend to my own children to follow that path. Except for the sciences and vocational courses like law, medicine etc. Or if you have a have a total passion for your subject (I didn't, I just wandered into mine).

The fact that you could leave university at age 21+ with over £40K debts is also a killer for me.

Yet everyone talks about going to university, schools encourage it, and its almost seen as a rite of passage.

Am interested in others' thoughts on this and what you hope for your children.

[siwel123]

This is from 2016

[BlueBug45]

@Gromance02 before John Major made all polys universities, some polys were more respected for particular courses than a university. This is why the broadsheets do yearly lists of courses with the top 10-20 institutions that do that particular course.

[topcat1980]

Ironic that being so educated has made you so closed minded, and working in academia has made you dismissive of other educational institutions and academic disciplines.

As I said, I know plenty of people who have done well from poly unis, with odd sounding degrees, they certainly ( and I certainly) make more money than you.

[topcat1980]

Education ALWAYS has value, is essentially what I'm trying to say, strange that someone who works for an academic institution doesn't see that.

Or shall I make this another one on my list of 101 things that actually never happened.

[youngOffenders]

@topcat1980

Did you really just suggest you make more money than me? You might earn more but what kind of cunt suggests so on a parenting forum thinking it has any bearing on anything? Besides which, my earnings would always pale in comparison to income from invested inheritance.


"Or shall I make this another one on my list of 101 things that actually never happened."

Do what you'd like. Just remember, when your list is finished, to roll it tightly and grease it lightly.

[topcat1980]

I'll do whatever I like.

You suggested that certain degrees from certain institutions were not worth it, I know many people from "ex polys" with degrees that you would disparage who have done extrmely well for themselves, and having the degree is part of the reason they have done well.

"Income from invested inheritance" ah that's what brings your snooty attitude, not your own accomplishments ( which I believe you have made up anyway) but benefiting from someone else's. I'm pleased to say I'm entirely self made.

[youngOffenders]

Maybe I made up the large inheritance too ...

Of course I benefit from my ancestors and that's luck. It enabled me to get a very good education but by the time I was academically tested at University it was all down to me.

"You suggested that certain degrees from certain institutions were not worth it"

Nothing as wishy-washy as suggesting. A shit degree from a shit uni is not worth the money.

"I'm pleased to say I'm entirely self made."

But you come across as a twat. Maybe you should judge yourself a little more harshly.

[titchy]

Ironic as you see Womens Studies from an ex-Poly as having merit.

Don't let your Sociology colleagues hear that view!

[Elspeth12345]

I think you just have to leave it up to your kids to decide really.

I think knowing what job/type of career you are interested in and then working out the route to get you there is important and keeps you motivated!

[topcat1980]

Ah so you were privately educated too?

I come across as a twat? I'd check my own actions before you make that comment as you dismiss things as "not being worth the money"

Oh and describing things as "shit degrees from shit unis" is really a verdict on just how you got your opportunities at education, lets be honest, you didn't get in on merit did you?

[titchy]

Nothing as wishy-washy as suggesting. A shit degree from a shit uni is not worth the money.

Actually that's a really narrow view. For a LOT of students getting a degree, regardless of subject and HEI, has massively positive impacts on them and their families, including future children.

If you only measure success in terms of graduate salary, then a shit degree from a shit university might be a failure (though it ignores the possibility that for many a £22k a year job is significant compared to the minimum wage job they'd otherwise have had), but then so is a music degree from a conservatoire, a teaching degree and a nursing degree.

[topcat1980]

If you only measure outcomes in terms of graduate salary then you aren't accurately measuring the impact of education.

Again making me question whether you are as well educated as you think, youngoffenders.

[youngOffenders]

@topcat1980

"Ah so you were privately educated too?"

Yes. What do you mean by "too"? As well as attending elite universities? Should I be apologetic?

Our Head Mistress her name is Gwen
She only likes it now and again
And again and again and again and again
For she is from Roedean School

"lets be honest, you didn't get in on merit did you?"

School? Depends how you define merit. Under grad and after - definitely academic merit and nothing else.

"I come across as a twat?"

Still yes. I'm amazed you hadn't realised but the chip on your shoulder is becoming plainer; maybe it obscured your view.

[topcat1980]

No chip on my shoulder at all, I just don't like a privileged little arse who wouldn't have got her uni place unless her education had been paid for being derisory about education standards elsewhere.

You didn't win your place on merit, you got in because of the privileges that were granted to you because of nothing that you have done.

[BottleOfJameson]

I would say while a degree from a lower ranked university isn't going to open doors in the same way that a degree from a top university will it can certainly be leveraged into a very successful career. For better or worse many jobs that were previously for school leavers now require a degree so it's pointless to compare the lives of people who left school even 15 years + ago to what one could expect now.

It would be naive to think that a 2.1 from a middling university is going to give you an automatic right to a well paid career, but it doesn't follow that it won't be worthwhile either.

[youngOffenders]

x-post.

I don't have a rounded education topcunt1980. In fact, it has been quite narrow and insular and perhaps more so as I've grown older. My expertise have certainly become narrower. My circle of friends isn't especially diverse and most I've known since we were very young.

When you're directly paying for education, how else do you suggest we measure the value if not graduate salaries? I haven't claimed to be a sociologist so have no doubt there are all kinds of ways to use statistics to show that the tuition fees are worth every penny for generations to come but the most simplistic and often the least misleading would be showing the employment prospects of graduates.

"Again making me question whether you are as well educated as you think"

I'm extremely well educated although it depends on your metric, of course.

[Ruffian]

And with regards to student loans, they are not debts as such, as you only pay back when you earn enough- the more you earn the more you pay back.

Whether you are paying it back or not you still owe it. Therefore it is a debt.

[Ruffian]

And even while you are not paying it back it's still accumulating interest at a high rate.

[BlueBug45]

@BottleOfJameson I've worked in a couple of companies who refused to hire people in certain departments if they didn't have a degree. It actually didn't matter what institution the degree came from, and for their jobs what it was in, they just needed a degree. It was mainly due to the fact that the roles were supporting very academic people.

[topcat1980]

So due to your narrow education you have chosen one metric that suits your poorly informed opinion?

Sounds like confirmation bias to me.

[youngOffenders]

"So due to your narrow education you have chosen one metric that suits your poorly informed opinion? "

No.

Firstly, surely every PhD is "narrow". I guess that as you didn't make everyone aware of a PhD you don't have one but I can assure you, when people are studying at this level, the specialism tends to be, well, specialist.

Secondly, why is my opinion poorly formed? As someone who only employs graduates or post grads, my opinion is worth a lot.

Of course you are a very wealthy anomaly but you're yet to explain why graduate salary is not an accurate measure of the worth of a degree.

I can't be bothered with copying and pasting links in iOS but very quick searches will show that certain courses (none of which end in 'studies') and no lower-ranked universities allow the graduate to earn as much money. You and you assuredly wealthy friends may have bucked the trend but that's unusual. Do you understand that?

The average salary of a Women's Studies graduate is 38.6% below that of other graduates. How am I wrong with this metric?

[Whatzat298]

Definitely depends on the individual. For me, it was absolutely the making of me. I got away from a conservative, rural, religious background and got to come out, be open about my sexuality and who I was, make friends who liked the same kind of thing as me and discover so much about what I wanted to do with my life.

My career is one which requires a degree (and postgrad) and I love it. My closest friends are mostly uni friends and I met my amazing wife at university. I dread to think who I’d be if I’d stayed at home, probably stayed in the closet, got one of the limited range of jobs available in my home town. I guess I could have just moved to a big city and got a job but I’m not really sure that I’d have had the momentum or the money to do that.

[topcat1980]

Your opinion is poorly informed because you have made sweeping generalisations, based your opinions on one metric, whilst disregarding other which you admit you have a lack of knowledge about. AS the holder of a PHD you should know that your judgement needs more nuance and backing up. Here you are merely seeking to confirm you bias.

Graduate salaries are one measurement of the value of a degree, not the be all and end all.

Oh and as a graduate of economics from the LSE how am I an anomaly of your measurement? Surely I back it up?

[Morphene]

firstly surely every PhD is narrow

This is total bollocks.

If you consider the subject specifics only then a PhD could be considered narrow, depth being the objective! But a PhD gives far more in terms of training and skills development than in does in subject specific knowledge. During my PhD I discovered some very specific and not very generally interesting research information...but I also got skills in a range of microscopy techniques, a range of biophysical characterisation techniques, a range of sample preparations and characterization protocols. This might seem specific to an outsider to science, but these together would make me a shortlistable candidate for jobs across most major biotech / big pharma / wet lab based R&D areas. That's a lot of potential jobs!

More important than those specific skills are the more general research skills, including planning and carrying out a research project, reporting in verbal and written forms, critical analysis of information from a range of source, and critical analysis of data. That skill set would open twice as many doors again as the previous list.

Then I also learned to code in additional two different languages during my PhD...which would be exportable to anywhere in the scientific programming sphere...which is probably as big as the previous two areas put together.

And that is all from a PhD done 15+ years ago. Now the training aspect of PhDs is taken far more seriously. Students I supervise now have done things including explicit training in outreach and public engagement, interfacing with industry and a mini MBA for good measure.

So not really narrow at all.

[BottleOfJameson]

BlueBug45 Exactly there are some opportunities that are only open to people with degrees. Likewise there are some jobs that will only look at people with degrees (or actually increasingly PhD's) from top institutions. In both cases it's often partly because there are too many applications to sift through and also because asking for a higher degree of academic qualification at least guarantees you competence to the level below you ask for (i.e. someone with a degree is at least a competent A-level standard, some-one with a PhD will be competent at degree level etc).