To think university is overrated?

[WeAreGypsy]

I did a degree at a normal university, in my early 20s, and although it had its merits I think it was overall an overrated experience.

For this reason I find it hard to recommend to my own children to follow that path. Except for the sciences and vocational courses like law, medicine etc. Or if you have a have a total passion for your subject (I didn't, I just wandered into mine).

The fact that you could leave university at age 21+ with over £40K debts is also a killer for me.

Yet everyone talks about going to university, schools encourage it, and its almost seen as a rite of passage.

Am interested in others' thoughts on this and what you hope for your children.

University teaches you four things, regardless of your degree:

1. To be able to synthesise and critically evaluate information
2. To recognise the importance of evidence in decision making
3. To learn to work as part of a team with people from different countries and cultures
4. To get a thorough grounding in a set of interlinked topics

In most cases, number 4 isn't that important unless you pursue a career in that subject - most of what you learned is out of date three years later anyway. However, if you have mastered 1, 2, and 3 then, although you might not realise it, your degree has helped with every other job you have done. Those 3 are also what most employers are looking for, regardless of where you studied.

DS applied for four apprenticeships all starting at around £12-17k per annum aged 16 and increasing annually. The one he took will pay £25-30k when he's 19 with chance for more progression later on. He's studying as part of the apprenticeship but not for a degree.
He applied on the government apprenticeship website. Degrees are fine but glad there are still other ways to decent jobs for the not particularly academic.

Wow, around most the apprenticeships are around £8k per yr. Full-time. That's 16yos without A-levels. And then they squeak up to maybe £15-£18k for those with A-levels.

... that's if you can find an apprenticeship locally, within 20 miles.

Which is still pretty good. Earn and learn. Some you do the degree alongside. Friends of ours DD is doing accountancy, she's been earning since 16 and already done a year of the degree part at 18 through work. Another one that DS friend applied for you lived away all week at the training centre for the first year which was about an hour away. Like degrees I suppose you get some good ones and some not so.

Uni is only a very small part of the picture. I think what makes people sucessful is something what isn't examined. I've never managed to have a career, so In some ways uni became irrelevant.

I think there needs to be cultural shift in how degrees are viewed. All to often we still hold the view that a good degree will lead to a good job and higher income, so therefore its worth it. This view is a bit antiquated now and dates to the 60s/70s when between 5 and 15 % of the population went.

A degree can be part of what gets you a good job, but getting one doesn't lower the barriers to entry to roles like it did once. It certainly isn't the great equaliser of social inequality that it once was.

Young people need to offer a wider package, especially to get the jobs that are the most competitively sought after, but having a degree is viewed as a necessity for many roles now, and as our children are going to need to have 3-4 different careers it will help them get their foot on the ladder.

In short, not the only route, and not the be and end all it once was, but still valuable.

Absolutely small that sums up what I feel. It's valuable - to a point.

I doubt degree apprenticeships will ever be anything other than an alternative for the minority. There are less than a handful of subjects which have degree apprenticeships approved. There is very little support for employers or providers to develop new ones. All the government rhetoric around the apprenticeship levy is geared towards 16-18 year olds, not at post A level. in addition they are incredibly bureaucratic and it tends to be the former polytechnics that are deliverers, RG degree apprenticeships won't really be achievable

I don't think there is employer support. A number if my DDs friends have chosen degrees ( all at RG unis I might add) which offered a year in industry. However in the small print you needed to get those placements yourself and that has not been always possible.

Buyer beware I think.

Plenty of subjects which are not clearly vocational but still impart sought-after skills. MFL for a start.

Imo the main problem is not that university based learning is useless but that students vastly underestimate the amount of initiative required to get on in life. Ime many 19yos seem to think that if they only do as they are told, go to uni, read the set books and answer the questions on the exam paper, somebody else will magic up a well paid job that exactly matches what they have learnt. Life isn't like that. It isn't like that if you leave education after A-level either. If you haven't got initiative you won't get on under any circumstances. If you do have initiative, there are lots of ways you can use a degree to further your career. Some of our MFL, English and history graduates do very well indeed.

It's not just initiative - it's about getting on well with others and that sort of thing.

Ds will be going in September, his best friend decided it wasn't worth it but had family connections to help him into a good job. Ds' degree is a 'creative' one with potential for a good career but also a lot of unemployed graduates. I'm not in any position to help him financially and the level of debt terrifies me.

Most employers in the industry still expect people to have studied to degree level so it's the 'piece of paper' argument. My dn said afterwards they thought Uni was a waste of time but both are now in good jobs/training that they wouldn't have wouldn't been eligible for without degrees.

Viv not everyone who does a law degree wants to work in law. A good degree opens doors.

Were we live there is no business or industry. Kids have to move out if they want a career and to experience city life.

And with regards to student loans, they are not debts as such, as you only pay back when you earn enough- the more you earn the more you pay back.

It depends on several factors. Intended use for the degree, the individual and, of course, the course.

Women's Studies at Northampton clearly is a waste of time but a sensible degree from a well thought of university will do wonders for most people. Even if you never use the knowledge, you'll use many skills you gained as well as showing companies and employers that you have tenacity and intelligence when they're recruiting for Graduate Training Schemes.

"Women's Studies at Northampton clearly is a waste of time"

Only if you don't use it, or don't value people studying subjects they have a deep interest in.

Many, many graduate training schemes simply require an hons degree above a 2:1.

I was going to say the same about art degrees youngOffenders but took it out.

Again that's just your perception, I know two people with art degrees from what you would probably consider "lesser" universities who are leaders in their field and earn hundreds of thousands a year.

A lot of educational snobbery on here, from people who have very little to be snobby about.

"Many, many graduate training schemes simply require an hons degree above a 2:1"

It's a prereq. A higher second class doesn't mean you get a place on a scheme.

"Only if you don't use it"

There's a use for a degree like that? (Although I was perhaps unfair on Northampton)

"or don't value people studying subjects they have a deep interest in."

As someone who only interviews and employs post grads, "I was interested" doesn't win me over. I want them to get far more out of it and know how it helps them be better in the role I'm interviewing for. I expect a good explanation of why they chose a particular university too; usually related to the course.

"There's a use for a degree like that? "

Of course there's a use for a degree like that, maybe not in your very limited undersanding of it, but there will be plenty of them.

"I was interested" doesn't win me over"

It might not win you over, but you are one person, and someone explaining well why they were interested in a degree and they learned can be very helpful in getting a role.

Oh Economics at the LSE, actually, before you ask.

I hope that the fees will start to put people off going to University and a lot of the none RG institutions close. It is a waste of so much time and money for so many students nowadays as the demand for degree level roles is so low compared to the number of graduates. I say this as someone with a degree by the way. I wish I hadn't bothered and this was 20 years ago - around the time the ridiculous explosion in graduate numbers began.

I encourage my students to look at degree apprenticeships in certain fields. They are becoming more prevalent and I know RG unis in some areas are now offering provision for them.

It seems a no brainer. You get your degree for free, you are paid while working and you actually get work experience while also getting a degree. As long as industry are engaged in the process and they remain relevant I think they are a win win.

"Oh Economics at the LSE, actually, before you ask."

Didn't ask, don't care.

Undergrad at Cambridge, Post Grad at Oxford, currently work at Southampton, before you ask; you obviously do care. Ironic as you see Womens Studies from an ex-Poly as having merit.