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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

beans mash and sausages is a healthy meal

898 replies

madhurjazz · 07/08/2016 22:02

Mother in law thinks its junk food. But the beans contain 1 of your 5 a day, mashed potatoes are just veg and a good source of carbs and the sausages are full of essential protein.

We often have ketchup, this has been shown to reduce many cancers like prostate, and a glass of juice.

Seems healthy to me and not junky.

OP posts:
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MrsJayy · 08/08/2016 12:05

The cancer thing] Hmm

teacherwith2kids · 08/08/2016 12:06

But Saucy, is there an indication of how much red / processed meat causes what level of risk?

I mean, in the same way as smoking 1 cigarette a month, while not as good as smoking none, is definitely less risky than smoking 490 per day, how risky is eating a couple of sausages twice a month?

teacherwith2kids · 08/08/2016 12:06

40 per day, obviously. 490 would be going some...

Egosumquisum · 08/08/2016 12:07

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Egosumquisum · 08/08/2016 12:09

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AppleSetsSail · 08/08/2016 12:09

I mean, in the same way as smoking 1 cigarette a month, while not as good as smoking none, is definitely less risky than smoking 490 per day, how risky is eating a couple of sausages twice a month?

I can't imagine it's terribly risky. Just something to keep in mind when you're doing your grocery shopping.

Seems like there's possibly a false divide between 'joyless cancer-obsessed people' and 'normal people who eat sausages'. We eat bacon AND sausages, just fewer that we would if we didn't know they were carcinogenic.

Egosumquisum · 08/08/2016 12:12

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teacherwith2kids · 08/08/2016 12:13

It's just rather unintelligent to represent it as an 'absolute' risk.

Sausages cause cancer, so you shouldn't eat any sausages.

Crossing the road causes being run over and killed, so you shouldn't cross any roads.

The second shows how strange the first one really is - it is more nuanced - how many sausages? Which sausages? how many? Eaten by who? What else do they eat? What will the sausages that they don't eat be replaced by, and how much better for them is that replacement really? What might that person become deficient in if they remove all possible cancer causing foods from their diet absolutely?

AppleSetsSail · 08/08/2016 12:14

It's just rather unintelligent to represent it as an 'absolute' risk.

OK, who is doing this?

logosthecat · 08/08/2016 12:23

Disclaimer: not a nutritionist, so take what I'm going to say with a huge pinch of (blood-pressure raising) salt.

I found two summaries of the evidence on the link between colorectal cancer and red meat consumption. Both are 5 years old now, so there might well be more up to date evidence available.

Firstly, there is this report from the Continuous Update Project. It looked at 7 studies to show a 17% increased risk of cancer per 100g of red meat consumed per day (RR: 1.17 (1.05-1.31)).

For processed meat, it is worse. 9 studies were looked at and these suggested that eating processed meat increases the risk of bowel cancer by 18 per cent per 50g processed meat per day (RR 1.18 (1.10-1.28)).

www.wcrf.org/int/research-we-fund/continuous-update-project-findings-reports/colorectal-bowel-cancer

  1. The Iron and Health report from 2011 which has a bit of a literature review on colorectal cancer and red meat, which looks at a larged number of studies. You can see the whole report here, but I've excerpted the most relevant parts below: www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/339309/SACN_Iron_and_Health_Report.pdf

Red meat intake and colorectal cancer risk (Annex 7, Table A18)

Twenty-one prospective studies have been published since 1996 (including some updated analyses from previously published cohorts). Two of these studies (Balder et al, 2006; Sato et al, 2006) considered the risk of colorectal cancer with total meat consumption rather than only red meat. Twenty-one out of the 25 relative risks reported were greater than one, 3 significantly so (Chao et al, 2005; Larsson et al, 2005; Cross et al, 2007). The median relative risk for highest versus lowest red meat intake was 1.17. The increased relative risk was statistically significant in 1 out
of the 4 largest studies (Wei et al, 2004; Chao et al, 2005; Norat et al, 2005; Crosset al, 2007); the trend was statistically significant in 2 of the 4 studies and close to significance in 1 study.

7.58 Significantly increased colorectal cancer risk was associated with red meat intakes of ≥ 114 g/day for men, ≥ 80 g/day for women (Chao et al, 2005); ≥ 94 g/day (Larsson et al, 2005); and 62.7 g per 1000 kcal (equivalent to 145 g/day for men and 102 g/day for women62) (Cross et al, 2007). In all the studies which reported a significantly increased risk of colorectal cancer, processed meat was included under the category
of red meat.

Processed meat intake and colorectal cancer risk (Annex 7, Table A19)
7.59 Fourteen prospective studies have been published since 1996 (including some updated analyses from previously published cohorts). Thirteen out of the 18 relative risks for highest compared to lowest processed meat intake were greater than 1; of these, 5 were significant (English et al, 2004; Wei et al, 2004; Norat et al, 2005; Oba et al, 2006; Cross et al, 2007). The median relative risk was 1.16. The relative risk was statistically significant in 3 out of the 4 largest studies (Wei et al, 2004; Chao et al, 2005; Norat et al, 2005; Cross et al, 2007), and the trend was statistically significant in all the studies.

7.60 Increased colorectal cancer risk was significantly associated with processed meat intakes of ≥ 20.3 g/day (Oba et al, 2006); ≥ 29 g/day (English et al, 2004); ≥ 80 g/day (Norat et al, 2005); 22.6 g per 1000 kcal (equivalent to 52.3 g/day for men and 36.9 g/ day for women) (Cross et al, 2007); and 5 times per week or more (Wei et al, 2004).

Colorectal cancer risk in vegetarians
7.61 A pooled analysis (Key et al, 2009a) of individual participant data (n=61,566) from 2 studies in the UK which examined cancer incidence in vegetarians (Sanjoaquin et al, 2004; Key et al, 2009b) observed no significant difference in colorectal cancer incidence between meat eaters and vegetarians (relative risk in vegetarians compared to meat eaters = 1.12; 95% CI, 0.87–1.44) after 12 years of follow-up. However, the analysis did not fully characterise meat consumption patterns and
the total meat intake of non-vegetarians was much lower than the average UK intakes of meat consumers reported in the National Diet and Nutrition Survey (Henderson et al, 2002).

teacherwith2kids · 08/08/2016 12:38

So if I eat 100g of sausages once every 14 days - less than 10g per day, and with 13 non-processed meat days - then the risk is minimal?

Egosumquisum · 08/08/2016 12:41

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Egosumquisum · 08/08/2016 12:44

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MrsDeVere · 08/08/2016 12:45

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GloriaGaynor · 08/08/2016 12:45

Reading MN I do really wonder how on earth many of us made it to adult hood with all this 'rubbish' 'junk' food that were once considered a normal every day fairly healthy meal!

People are making it to adulthood with very high BMIs. The U.K. has the highest obesity levels in Western Europe - 25% of the population. British women have 3rd highest average BMI in Europe and British men have the 10th highest.

Before anyone tries to claim I'm saying you can get obese on one meal of beans and mash, clearly not. But nutritional sense and a balanced diet play a part in maintaining a healthy BMI.

logosthecat · 08/08/2016 12:49

teacher - Again, I'm not an expert but those studies seem to show that the frequency of eating and the amount consumed seem to make a difference, and that would suggest that if you only have red meat occasionally, the risk is lower. I don't know whether the data suggests that there is a threshold level of consumption for risk, or whether it's linear up from zero I'm afraid. Would be interesting to hear from someone way more informed than me who has reviewed all the relevant literature- I've just looked at the literature reviews. Blush

Egosumquisum · 08/08/2016 12:50

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logosthecat · 08/08/2016 12:53

Also - and again, please excuse me if this is wrong - I do believe that the evidence on alcohol and cancer risk has changed recently with the publication of some studies that suggest that there is no 'safe' level of alcohol consumption either. Alcohol guidelines were recently reviewed to take account of this (no more than 14 units a week is the new advice).

I should emphasize that I am not preaching - I have probably managed to do this myself only about 2 weeks in the whole of this year! Smile

teacherwith2kids · 08/08/2016 12:54

MrsDV - exactly. It is a matter of the balance of the whole diet AND lifestyle.

MrsDeVere · 08/08/2016 12:56

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JessicaEccles · 08/08/2016 12:56

'People are making it to adulthood with very high BMIs. The U.K. has the highest obesity levels in Western Europe'

Yes. And life expectancy is the highest it's ever been. Most people in the past did not live long enough to die of bowel cancer. And there is also a strong genetic correlation to that cancer.

What we need to do is balance the risk between smoking 40 a day vs eating 40 sausages a day Grin

MrsDeVere · 08/08/2016 12:58

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Houseconfusion · 08/08/2016 12:58

sausages can be bettered by serving a plain roasted chicken breast.

Please someone, anyone, adorn this nutter's head with a crown made of fresh, organic kale gently washed in spring water.

Egosumquisum · 08/08/2016 13:01

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NavyandWhite · 08/08/2016 13:03

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