need advice asap re 20y ds am getting desperate

[mrsfuzzy]

posted on here for traffic as am getting desperate as to what to do will try not to drip feed, deep breath, here goes;
has been out of work a year post college, signs on does the very mim of job searches, help around the house, doesn't really speak to rest of the household [4 sibs older teens / one is 21] unless its about gaming -spends hours and hours on gaming . doesn't wash unless pushed, doesn't go out unless he wants something from the local shop i.e food, has been to the gp and put on 'time to talk' phone counselling as hates talking face to face, but gave that up after five or six sessions as'it's not helping' probably won't take prescribed tablets unless pushed. no friends, drugs and alcohol isn't the problem.
was very chatty as a child, but has grown quieter as he has got older and more with drawn, i think it's depression but he won't talk to gp and as i said before unlikely to take meds anyway.must be doing the very bare mim for job search as not sanctioned yet [it's only a matter of time].
as a family we are trying to support him as much as we can, pointing out jobs, college courses, voluntary work etc but it all goes over his head. he went to an interview the other day [his first] and seemed interested in the job but when he came back he had a faint whiff of b.o -hadn't showered and was wearing the same clothes from the previous day.
he is paying a small amount of rent from job seekers which we agreed on and he is comfortable with.
the shite has been hitting the fan though recently due to the lack of inactivity on his part, 2 sibs are in college and working part time, they contribute to the finances [through choice] but are increasing annoyed that he does nothing all day except game. 1 sib is looking for part time work whilst in college and dh works f/t but has health issues so needs to cut back, i am so worried about ds, everyone has been so patient with him but it's like talking to a brick wall and now recently it's a case of enough is enough.
what do we do ? have asked him on many occasions if there are problems - no, gives same answer to ds3 [ they are close], have tried to help with the job applications on line etc [he is v. tech savvy] but does not push himself to do more. it's making me so unhappy for him and the rest of the household v.. please help us

firstly, big hugs and to all you wonderful caring mners ! i've been reading all your replies and it makes so much sense in what you are saying, his older dc is asd there are a lot of similarities when i think about, god, now i think about it, why haven't i seen it ?
am going to have a chat with him and suggest gp visit. he won't go of his own doing but perhaps i can make an apt if he agrees. was thinking going with him handing the gp a note briefly explaining the situation and then leaving masterfuzzy to speak to gp in private. once i leave the room would that be an idea ? have mentioned on many occasions about volunteering in charity shops, he seems worried about asking staff for details. he gets bored easily so there are no hobbies etc. online he calls himself 'lone wolf' speaks volumes really i know that because his 'closest db' has told him, even db is losing patience at times with him. it's so sad all round.

God change gaming to reading and that was me at his age! Severe anxiety/depression. I usually roll my eyes a bit when depression is suggested for bad behaviour but.. I think he really sounds depressed. Not bathing, going to job interviews dirty are huge red flags.

He sounds like he is possibly very depressed and he is in a high risk group. MH service provision for young men is inadequate and it is not his fault if what is offered is not helpful to him. MH services are chronically underfunded and staff are burnt out and undervalued.

Totally agree. Young men with MH issues often fall through the cracks because there's an assumtion by some that they're just lazy etc. We really need much better MH care for young men! They're a VERY high risk group

Whoops! Thread's moved on

OP take care of yourself. It's so hard seeing loved ones struggle so hard. You and and your DC are really being wonderful

special this is somethong i'm very worried about, i have rapid recycling bi polar and am on meds but they do not always work well, when i'm high i'm indestructible. capable of anything really.

I havnt read through the thread but could u point him at careers in game industry

creativeskillset.org/creative_industries/games/job_roles

mrsfuzzy I'm sorry to hear that. I have BDP and CPTSD, it's so hard.

As you know, a lot of these insidious things come out around his age.

The lone wolf thing made my heart ache a little poor boy.

I like your idea of a note. Or maybe a txt? That way he has time to mull it over and doesn't feel 'ambushed'

He is very definitely depressed. The gaming is acting like an addiction, masking the things he doesn't want to deal with, replacing all the little worries and problems with one big one. The lack of attention to personal hygiene signifies low self-esteem and is also a symptom of depression.

Can you think of a point in his life that triggered all this? Did he have difficulty adjusting to changes in puberty? Did he seem to not deal well with the new social challenges of being a teenager?

For all the difficulties facing young girls during adolescence, we often forget that young boys are under such intense pressure too - there are such high expectations of young men that it's no wonder some decide to duck out of the whole game. And unlike females, males are taught that to admit weakness and talk about problems is to fail.

I think the suggestion of getting a pet above is a good one. Pets are great for depression, and for troubled people it is so nice to spend time with an animal, because they know it won't judge them or have the same expectations that humans do.

have just spoken to master fuzzy and he is going to phone gp for apt as soon as possible.

It does sound like depression to me. Do you think that he may also have anxiety ? If so, as someone who had both and went through similar, I really don't think the tough love approach will work. With depression and anxiety tough love actually can make things worse, as the problem wasn't "laziness" but being unwell.

I don't know how the phone counselling works but if it's a different person each time I can see how he would be put off. If it is the same person each time then maybe the counselor just wasn't right for him. Sometimes you need to try a few counselors to find the right fit for you, though that's tough due to costs etc.

Has he been checked by the GP for thyroid and vitamin deficiencies like D? Sometimes a change in diet (eating healthy with no processed foods and lots of fruit and veg), getting some exercise and sunlight can make a difference to get the ball rolling. Does he make his own meals or eat with the family?

You could perhaps start by trying to get him into a routine slowly. You could start by saying he needs to wake up at a certain time and wash then breakfast. Then you can add on going for a walk in the morning or before lunch, so he gets a little exercise and sunshine. You could then add on a few chores like doing his laundry. Then set aside an hour a day to look for jobs, and gradually increase it to doing voluntary work, spending more time looking for work etc.

Yes he's an adult, but if he's severely depressed he needs to be supported and helped. Though only you know what may or may not work for your son.

And I agree with Violet about a dog. I think it helps a great deal as a dog loves you with no judgement, and having a dog to cuddle with is very calming. Also since it needs you to take care of it, it can help get you into a routine and going for walks. Obviously this would only help if your son has always liked dogs....

He is an adult so he can't be spoken like a child. He can't be 'threatened' with stuff. Also there is a positive side to Gaming, there is a social connection there, and it is how he is connecting with the world at the moment. It's really really important to him. Yes, there is also a problematic side as well as we can see. Make sure he knows it is not the Gaming itself you have a problem with, it is the lack of balance that you observe in his life.
However, it is important that you do not dismiss or belittle his 'important stuff'. That you never say 'get off that stupid computer'. If he feels you don't respect his good intentions (which currently is his gaming achievements), he will be very less likely to take any advice or help from you.
And at the moment the Gaming is his 'important stuff'. When having any conversation it helps to:
Acknowledge their important stuff ('I know your computer and your gaming is very important to you..')
then also get 'buy in' for what else is important by Asking A Question rather than telling him ('however, would you agree that keeping healthy is important too?') type of thing.
At all times you have to keep the communication channel open to him.
He does sound depressed to some extent. However, he is at a cross roads in his life that many young adults come to - they leave one situation and have difficulty 'bridging' to the next situation. They may have done fine in situations like school or college that were very structured but do less well when the structure is removed.
What did he study in College? How did he get on socially and academically there?
What might be useful is a new 'Bridge'. Like another course or part-time study he can do in something he is interested in - a computer course or games development or something. Is something like that an option - something to get him out of the house for the next year.
He sounds like he is not ready to take on a job - for whatever reasons.
However, he can still be responsible for contributing to the household financially and also by doing his share of housework, and that he is expected to go to bed at a reasonable hour because a healthy lifestyle and balance is important too etc.
So yes, up the financial contribution to show him that he needs to contribute. If he wants a lifestyle that includes a lot of gaming which is important to him, then how can he work towards something that will finance that in the future?
To build self esteem ask his opinion on something and then take his advice on it. It sounds like a small thing but shows you have faith in him and think his advice is worth taking.
Engage him in household decisions rather than leave him up in the room on the computer. Conversations like 'I need your advice on something' even the colour to paint the fence. Or would you prefer X or Y for dinner if you had a choice? Those little things help.
When you speak to him try to think of things from his perspective rather than go to him with the worry for his future being the only thing in your head. Start conversations about stuff he is interested in.
If someone is feeling they can't manage to take on life stuff like a job etc, then pointing out job ads as soon as he comes into the kitchen, giving unasked for advice - 'you know what you should do' etc comes across as just more pressure.
From the outside it seems like the person has many choices, from inside the person it may feel like they have no choice, and no motivation to get a job because 'I won't enjoy it', 'they'll think I'm stupid' etc. Which are just reasons his mind is giving him because he doesn't feel up to doing anything else.
It helps to remember he is not in any immediate danger when you feel panicked about his future and all the terrible ways this could end, etc, etc.

Mrsfuzzy - Sending big hugs to you [hugs]

Your opening post might well have been describing my oldest DS. In fact I did a double take in case someone had posted on my behalf!

My DS has ASD (would have been AS under the old criteria), he was only diagnosed earlier this year. He does also have depression and quite severe anxiety, which has gotten much worse over the past couple of years - he's barely able to leave the house, especially not alone.

It might be worth asking if you can call the GP to speak with them in advance of an appointment for DS, or as you said, writing a letter explaining your concerns.

Also take a look at this: www.wired.com/2001/12/aqtest/

It's sort of a screening test for symptoms of autism on a "friendly" site. Perhaps if DS scores highly, you could print off the results to send to the GP in order to ask for referral for diagnosis.

Just to warn you though, autism screening and support for adults is woefully inadequate these days. DS was waiting for over a year from referral to diagnosis, and we've just been told that the local autism has centre has lost most of it's funding.

Things that might help...

As others have said, getting a dog (if DS would like one) would perhaps give him a sense of purpose and a reason to go out, without having to worry about interacting with others. (We have a houseful of cats, so not really an option for us).

Pokemon Go? We discovered this a few days ago, I installed and showed DS asking him to help me. He loves it, and has been out with me several times now hunting for pokemon and getting items from the stops.

I've found a good way to get DS to open up is to ask "how are you feeling?" rather than badger him to wash/go out/do stuff. He doesn't always answer but feels able to talk to me when he's able. In the same vein, try texting/emailing DS. He might find it easier to open up without having to be "face to face" IYSWIM?

Ask DS if he could help you with something (going to supermarket, fixing something, etc) and show that you appreciate his company and his help. Give him plenty of advance notice though - if he's anything like my son, asking him to switch off mid-game will only cause him to be upset and unwilling.

Hope this helps a little. It sounds really difficult for you all

I read an article a while back (I think in a womens mag) about a son who had very similar experiences your DS is having. Basically he was addicted to online gambling and nothing else seemed to matter. I think he ended up admitting he had a problem to his mum and has now turned his life around.

The crux of it was he ended up writing a self help book for addicts of online gaming. There are a large number of websites to support this addiction - he is not alone!

Please don't go and cut off his Internet or gaming, tough love is good for a badly behaved child - not an adult with mental health problems.
The first step will be talking to your Son and getting him to admit that he has a problem.
Once he has agreed that he has a problem and things can't continue the way they are - you can sit down and set out some small achievable goals and a step by step plan on how to get there.
If you're in the Uk you could also give your local Mind centre a call - just google mind then the county you live in for their number. They have helped me through some of my darkest times and when a family member of mine was going through a terrible time with depression recently but would not seek help they were so helpful.

Sorry cross posted. Just saw your post about sibling having asd. That's good news about the GP appointment. I think your suggestion about going with him and giving the note and then leaving is fine, if he isn't comfortable with you being there. Hopefully things will get sorted soon. If he has asd then a diagnosis will hopefully make things clearer and help can be given....

Sorry you are going through all this OP

again, a huge thanks for your replies, i feel like a huge weight has left my shoulders just for sharing these worries, so many ideas i would never have thought of for everyone.

Glad to hear you are feeling a bit better mrsfuzzy. Sorry if my original post was a bit businesslike. My brother had social anxiety issues from his early teens and didn't deal so well with the world. He has had cognitive behavioural therapy and he takes prozac and he seems pretty happy now, running a successful internet business and living in his own flat.
What you are going through is really tough and I hope things get better from here. Hugs and

My DS has ASD & is in his 20's. He volunteered in a charity shop which gave him some confidence and he now has a part-time paid job in a shop, so I think the charity shop idea might be a good thing. Maybe you could go round the shops in your area and have a word with the managers first, explain that he has possible depression/asd and see what reponse you get. It would be best for him if you could find somewhere which is sympathetic.

My Ds has ASD and is 19. He's a lovely boy, but hates social situations and crowds. He'll never be one of the 'lads'. He spends most of his time in his room gaming, but he's not quiet about it, he's got a headset on and is talking to fellow gamers in a way he wouldn't if he was actually with him. It's his social scene and he's quite cheerful.

He's a naturally clever lad but most occupations aren't feasible for him as he's too self-conscious and won't consider applying. The answer for him has been studying Games Design at college. He's halfway through a 2yr HND and hopes to get into 2nd year of a Games Design degree next year. He felt totally comfortable at the open days with the environment, the lecturers and the other students - he had found 'his people'.

I don't know if my son will ever be paid for designing games, but the chances are that he won't. This doesn't bother me too much, it keeps him in education and with his peers in a social environment. I hope in the future that he will be able to be employed in some kind of back-room tech job where he can use his computing skills to support him.

Maybe that's something your Ds could look at?

Sounds like my brother who has Apergers (apart from my brother is forceful and angry when he doesn't get his own way)

Sorry, pressed send by mistake before finishing!

He sits in his smelly room in the same clothes playing games all day, leaving to go to the local ASDA to spend his money on ice cream and pizzas and more games.

He has had two jobs but quit and walked out on both. He won't give housekeeping though, despite DM asking for it.

He has two friends from when he was at school (he is 23 now) but only speaks to them through his gaming. He is highly intelligent and blames everyone else for him not having a job. He just isn't interested.

I also think it's gaming addiction.I knew a young lad who when he left Uni sat at home gaming.It just occupied his time and days went by without other activues.After a while he lost confidence, especially talking to people in real life as they would ask 'whats your plans' etc he would feel awkward and shut down and back to gaming so in a cycle.In the gaming world no one interacted at the personal level so was safer.

Cut down internet access, appreciate you might not be technie but you can restrict access to certain devices during periods of time.Limit it to early evening for a few hours.

I agree about volunteering, had he enjoyed any sports previously?

Sounds like my DS, age 22 with an autism diagnosis and has a gaming/Youtube addiction. He has never worked but he gets full ESA and PIP so no worries about sanctions and he does contribute to household expenses. He does occasional voluntary work and goes sees our CMHT for therapy once a week, and he has been on ADs since he was a teenager. No RL friends and doesn't get out much except to go shopping for food.

Heart goes out to you. Had a very similar situation with son and things got very bad before help was forced on him. Sounds like a chat or family intervention will do little good as you're probably out of your depth. Make sure everyone gets off his back and treats him gently. Ring your gp for advice. That should be your first port of call. Explain your concerns and his reluctance to seek help. Love, support, meds and a healthy social life will be key. For the moment he is really suffering. If you want to pm me I'd be glad to listen. We went through the same and I really do feel your pain.

I have a friend like this. Always complaining her son aged around 20 does nothing except play on his X box all day whilst she works and cleans and cooks and slaves, yada yada.

Why don't you unplug the x-box, seriously? Tell him he can have it back when he gets a job. Sorry if I sound harsh but I think you are enabling him completely to live this "lifestyle".