to think this is not how apologies work?

[lastnightiwenttomanderley]

It has come up.in conversation that DH thinks you only need to apologise 'if you have done something on purpose'.

My thinking is that you apologise if something you have done negatively affects someone, regardless of the original intention. So, bumping into.someone, forgetting to do something etc. all would have a quick 'oh balls, sorry, I forgot' or something.

By DHs logic you'd either never apologise or if you do, then it means you've set out to do something deliberately, which isn't particularly nice!

The problem is, he knows I think differently so when I try and (gently, not patronisingly or aggressively) probe his stance he gets quite defensive and snappy. It's become an issue as there are times when he has (unintentionally) hurt or upset me or others but doesn't apologise and vehemently states his case for not doing do, thereby turning something small into a bigger disagreement. I'm not suggesting he should constantly apologise and I'm by no means perfect but it just seems unnecessarily confrontational.

Have I got this all wrong?

A quick "sorry I stepped on your foot" is completely different from a heartfelt "I made a mistake; I regret the hurt it caused you; I'll learn from it; please forgive me" type apology.

The former is just social lubricant like please, thank you and excuse me. They don't mean anything exactly, and certainly they don't confer any obligation or debt or anything. He should absolutely be in the habit of dropping these meaningless niceties about without worrying about long-term consequences.

It sounds like he feels very vulnerable about the latter kind of apology. I think tbh it is an art and a very grown-up one. It takes most people years if not decades to get the tone right.

I honestly think you should separate the two kinds both in your reaction to him and in your subtle coaching of him in his new assertiveness. Model, model, model - at the very least you will be showing a good example to your very small DS. You can ask DH to model similarly in front of your child "so that he can learn manners" without making any remarks about his wider behaviour.

I think this "I didn't mean to upset you so you're unreasonable for being upset and expecting an apology" is a really pernicious and erosive form of abuse I'm afraid.

It totally negates your feelings and makes his feelings constantly trump yours. It makes you doubt yourself. It makes them able to do or say anything they like because they've always got the "I didn't mean it like that - you're being silly to be hurt" excuse always at the ready.

It's really not nice at all and was one of the reasons my exH is my exH and not DH

An apology isn't about you. It's about the person who's been wronged. So, no, it's not reserved for when you've intentionally upset or hurt someone...

This. Ideally, you never intentionally hurt someone, anyway.

I agree that women probably apologize too much for things that are not their fault at all, (I recently apologized for not wanting to talk to a stranger - "sorry, but I'm in a hurry", which in retrospect really wasn't necessary because he was being rather inappropriate by trying to chat me up) but that doesn't mean it's a good thing to not apologize to anyone ever.

Your husband's sad past is sad, but he seems to lack empathy to a point where I don't think leading a relationship with him is feasible. You know him best, of course, but the thing is, at a certain point, it doesn't matter whether someone being a terrible partner is "their fault" or the result of horrible childhood trauma - the effect on you is the same.

Perhaps it would be wise to separate from him until he has learnt how empathy works.

In my opinion, people who insist that their not having done something on purpose equals not having to apologize are, in fact, total dicks who do hurt other people on purpose.
Refusing to apologize is declaring whatever you did to hurt someone to have been totally okay in retrospect. That's something only a person who wants to hurt others would do.

I don't know how you can be bothered to have such idiotic conversations with adult human beings who are supposed to be your life partners

Or, indeed, how such people became life partners in the first place.

If sorry is only for when you've deliberately hurt someone then its meaning is totally changed to "I set out to hurt you but you have unfortunately found out. I regret that you found out it was deliberate but the fact remains I wanted and intended to hurt you, so up yours."

I find people rarely upset someone else on purpose. And if you've done it intentionally, why would you say sorry? Illogical!

However we all often upset people without meaning to.

He's playing power games and being a bit of a knob.

If you apply his 'logic' practically then you wouldn't apologise for accidentally spelling boiling hot coffee on someone on a train.

Utterly ridiculous and actually quite rude.

Define: sorry

adjective: sorry; comparative adjective: sorrier; superlative adjective: sorriest

1. feeling sad or distressed through sympathy with someone else's misfortune.

"I was sorry to hear about what happened to your family" "I was sorry to hear about his accident" "he couldn't help feeling sorry for her" "I felt sorry for the poor boys working for him"

1. feeling regret or penitence.

"he said he was sorry he had upset me" "I'm sorry if I was a bit brusque" "sorry—I was trying not to make a noise" Or used as a polite request that someone should repeat something that one has failed to hear or understand. - "I'm sorry—you were saying?"

OP Unfortunately my exH felt exactly the same as yours and over the years this grew to be a huge issue - in fact one of the many big reasons for divorcing him. I should have picked up on it earlier - I still remember today the time he kicked me in the mouth - accidentally - when we were messing around. He just laughed. I said "you hurt me". He laughed again. I said "You should apologise." He just laughed again and said he didn't mean to...

He was never sorry for anything - being cold, selfish, arrogant, in the wrong, unemployed blah blah blah. And someone who is never sorry, IMO, has no care or consideration for anyone. And that became very evident over the years.

When he started to tell the children not to apologise - on a frequent basis - I knew that was the time to leave.

My DP used to be like this. He is better now, although if he apologises and I accept it, he frequently sees it as an opening to explain his thought processes/actions leading up to whatever upset me. I have yet to find a way to get him to understand that is merely him justifying his behaviour. I have tried, "I understand /why/ you did that. It upset me. I told you, you apologised, there is no need to explain anything further."

How on earth has this only just come up? You married the guy, fgs! Did you not know he had this massive personality flaw view before you tied the knot?