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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To turn your attention to this article **Trigger warning: Child abuse. Title edited by MNHQ**

503 replies

NedStarksHead · 03/08/2016 11:55

After a long and stressful debate/argument on FB, I'd like to turn your attention to these articles....

If you're one of the people who say "murder them all, they're all scum, they should be shot" then just read these and re-think.

Use different wording. A child molester is so different to a pedophile.

http://www.salon.com/2015/09/21/imaapedophilebuttnotaa_monster/

http://www.virped.org

OP posts:
StrawberryMummy90 · 04/08/2016 09:16

OP you are Trying to normalize it, you are suggesting that society should be accepting to the ones who are ashamed of their feelings and never want to act upon them, but you don't know how they will feel in a couple of years time they might decide they will Act upon it, why take that incredibly foolish and dangerous risk? You're not looking at the real victims or even the potential ones.

I'm not saying they should be killed, talk to a therapist by all means, get help but don't cry because the police are informed to keep a close eye on you, if you truly have nothing to hide and find your desires sickening you would appreciate being watched and see it as a way you can ensure never to act upon your desire.

LizKeen · 04/08/2016 09:16

I think calling it a sexual orientation validates it.

How can it be a sexual orientation? You can't have a romantic relationship with a child any more than you can have a romantic relationship with a dog or a cat. If someone said their sexual orientation was towards dogs we would call them a sexual deviant. It would be seen as a fetish. It would not be given sexual orientation status.

IMO it is about power and control, in the same vein as rape. Dress it up as an uncontrollable attraction and start the woe is me and suddenly these people deserve sympathy and understanding? No I just cannot get on board with that at all.

IfTheCapFitsWearIt · 04/08/2016 09:16

Its not a sexual orientation. No more then you can say a rapest is sexually orientated to rape people.

Understand correctly the cause you championing, before asking others too.

NedStarksHead · 04/08/2016 09:16

So what do you suggest NeedACleverNN?
We just let things carry on the way they are? Make no attempt at reducing the amount of children suffering sexual abuse?

OP posts:
Grassgreendashhabi · 04/08/2016 09:17

What needaclever said

You can't normalise it ! You shouldn't normalise it

There is no place in society for it

Get help... Yes... But don't expect people to think it's okay or normal

NeedACleverNN · 04/08/2016 09:17

Making it socially acceptable will increase attacks not decrease them

"She was 15. It doesn't count because she was nearly legal"

Grassgreendashhabi · 04/08/2016 09:18

More therapy is needed

NedStarksHead · 04/08/2016 09:19

I'm not trying to make it socially acceptable, or normal.

I'm saying support trumps pitchforks? I also don't disagree with them being kept a close eye on/watched.

OP posts:
StrawberryMummy90 · 04/08/2016 09:20

I've also never once said I think they should be allowed access to any and all children they want, like a lot of you are suggesting

So you're suggesting the pedophile is locked away from society after all?
Because children are everywhere, on the TV, outside, at the shops, your next door neighbor. So of course these men are going to be around children. So it's ok that they are being aroused looking at your kids in tescos? We should feel sorry for them and be proud they are not acting upon their desire? So long as it's just thoughts and masturbation?

yorkshapudding · 04/08/2016 09:22

I have worked with both the victims and the perpetrators of sexual abuse, in a variety of settings, for many years. Before I got into that kind of work my views on the subject were very similar to that of the OP (that support and treatment was more helpful than condemnation etc) but years of direct experience have changed my thinking somewhat.

I have met many, many paedophilles who swear blind that they "would never hurt a child", that they would rather kill themselves than act on thier urges and that they "just want help to live a normal life" etc etc, then it inevitably comes to light they've been abusing kids the whole time. Some of them have been extremely convincing and had me feeling sorry for them, even liking them. Many convince themselves (and others) that they would "never hurt a child" whilst regularly viewing images of children being abused but they justify this to themselves by claiming it stops them acting on their urges. They simply choose not to acknowledge that by viewing these images they are complicit in the abuse of that child.

Also, anyone who has worked with convicted paedophilles in a prison/probation setting will know they are very good at "doing remorse" in front of professionals (lots of tears, monologues about how they're disgusted with themselves for the distress they've caused their victims and their families) but then they laugh, brag and share stories about their offences in the presence of other sex offenders when they think professionals aren't watching.

I've also met paedophilles who trot out the"I'm a paedophille but not a child abuser" line but that's because they choose not to see what they're doing as abuse, when according to the law and to societal norms, it most certainly is. For example, I worked with a man who used to say this but it turned out he was raping an 11 year old boy who lived on his street. He claimed it wasn't abuse as they were "in love" and "in a relationship" and that the boy had "initiated" it Hmm. I have had grown men sit there and tell me that primary school aged children "led them on", "seduced" them or "set them up" and they actually seem to believe this. We are talking about highly manipulative, often narcissistic, individuals who often bemoan society's lack of empathy for their "condition" whilst showing a staggering lack of self awareness about the destructive nature of their own impulses.

I will reserve my sympathy for the victims.

minifingerz · 04/08/2016 09:24

What would people here do if they discovered their young teen was having sexual thoughts about younger children?

Would you look at them in utter disgust and tell them that you revile them?

Would you say that you thought they should be castrated or locked up for ever.

Because there are mumsnetters whose offspring will be sexually attracted to children, and that this attraction will probably start during adolescence.

Seriously - what would be your attitude to your own child if they had paedophile tendencies (that they were distressed by and didn't act on).

StrawberryMummy90 · 04/08/2016 09:24

mini

If it was my Child I would put them in therapy, expect and hope the police will keep a close eye on their laptop, whereabouts etc. so I know children are safe. I would also want them in some sort of facility where they are not a threat to children, of course it would break my heart in to pieces but how incredibly selfish of me to normalize something so wrong and vile and put others at risk. Wouldn't want them to kill themselves, never said that. Stop with the drama.

Amithatmum · 04/08/2016 09:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Amelie10 · 04/08/2016 09:25

Well if you don't want them around children, who are a part of society, and if you think they should be kept an eye on then what are you saying differently to others here. Or is it just that you want a pat on your back for being so liberal thinking because you won't really want them around your kids either.

pectrini · 04/08/2016 09:25

I agree with you op. I don't know why pps seem to be wilfully misunderstanding you point and making you a 'paedophile sympathiser'

As minifingerz has pointed out, attitudes like the ops which allow for interventions are more likely to prevent abuse. But that seems to have been ignored by the 'you are disgusting and don't care about children being molested' brigade.

Empathy does not have to be 'reserved'. Do I have empathy for people who have these awful thoughts? Yes. Do I have more empathy for children who are victims of terrible abuse? Yes.

StrawberryMummy90 · 04/08/2016 09:25

And yes I would be completely and utterly disgusted. just as I would be disgusted if my son came to me and told me he has a desire to rape women.

NeedACleverNN · 04/08/2016 09:25

Same as Strawberry

I would make them go to therapy and report them to the police myself and make sure they don't do anything that could be considered paedophilia

NorfolkEnchance · 04/08/2016 09:26

Are you having a fucking laugh OP? As a mother of two small children I can categorically state that I have ZERO empathy for a fucking paedophile. Castrate the bloody lot of them, vile creatures.

PollyPerky · 04/08/2016 09:27

There are an awful lot of people here to seem to know what makes someone into a paedophile. Unless you are a psychiatrist or have spent years researching paedophilia, how do you know what it is?

I think it's orientation - and gay people can be bisexual so you can't use that argument - but unless anyone is an expert it might be best to stop posting opinion as fact. (And yes, I inculde myself here.)

practy · 04/08/2016 09:35

If it is orientation, who do the vast majority of men who rape children, also have sex with adults?

Hoppinggreen · 04/08/2016 09:35

No sympathy or empathy from me BUT if people find they have these feelings ( and acknowledge how wrong they are and don't act on them) they must be given the opportunity to receive treatment to help them. Even if we don't want to help them surely by treating them appropriately we can reduce the chance of them offending, which will protect children.
I don't believe it's an orientation but I do think it's a mental illness you may not have a choice about and people with it who admit they need help should get it.
Perhaps voluntary chemical castration ( if that is proven to work) along with counselling?

IfTheCapFitsWearIt · 04/08/2016 09:37

In that case polly the OP should probably take it down. If the OP and no one else is quaified enough to comment.

toptoe · 04/08/2016 09:38

Ned I can see why you may be confused and it is worth having a debate, just not on FB where you will be talking to people who suffered child abuse or perhaps paedophiles themselves.

My personal experience of paedophiles is that they are not attracted to children because they want an equal, loving relationship with a child. They are attracted to having power over a person who has little understanding of what is happening to them, who has a natural instinct to trust and want love from an adult. They are attracted to watching that child squirm when they don't want to do what the adult wants them to do. They are attracted to the power imbalance of doing things that may be painful to that child.

Lots of people have personal experience of peadophilia. It's not enough to just sympathise with someone who simply is attracted to a child's body because that is not what peodophliia is. They are attracted to the power they have over the child.

And that is why the peodophile is dangerous. The affect they have on you as an individual is lifelong and permeates every single sexual feeling you have from that moment onwards. It seriously inhibits the life of the victim because they have all sorts of esteem issues and confusion over whether they 'liked' it or not (because of the child's instinct to please an adult). It goes on and on and on. To be reminded of it on FB one morning is painful, especially if someone is saying 'your abuser is a victim and needs support'. It is somewhat disrespectful and actually if you're not an expert in this field you should stay well away from it.

In addition to the fact that peodophilia is about power, not sex, therapy rarely works for people who see nothing wrong in what they do, or think that they have a specific mental illness that means they have no control over what they do. I doubt very much that therapy would ever convince someone who enjoys hurting someone else that they should not enjoy hurting someone else.

Also, being abused does not then mean you go on to abuse. Yes, some victims will re-enact the abuse they suffered. They could definitely do with some therapy for the abuse they suffered. Perhaps that would stop them re-abusing, perhaps it would be too late.

But, not all victims go on to abuse. They are saddened by what happened to them and would not want to inflict it on others. They go about life trying our best to tread lightly, not to get unwanted attention from people as they view everyone as a potential threat to us, and they have problems with our intimate relationships that cause us some distress. They would never want to inflict that on someone else. Infact, they have an initimate understanding of what a paedophile is and are sensitive to the signs. That makes them great protectors of children.

I hope this error of judgement wading in on an area you don't fully understand doesn't stop you trying to find an answer for this, but I think you are barking up the wrong tree. You need to look at abuse as power and control, rather than a sexual attraction. Yes the paedophile gets sexual gratification but it's because it has been forced out of a confused child, not becuase they are naturally attracted to a child's body.

user87654321 · 04/08/2016 09:39

Thoughts become words, words become actions

Me: Ooh, I could crush a grape

Nope, never acted on it.

scarednoob · 04/08/2016 09:40

mini if my DD ever did that, I would treat her exactly as I would anyone else I found having inappropriate thoughts about children. I would not think it was suddenly ok or to be sympathised with just because it was my child wanting to abuse someone else's Hmm