To think our society is on the verge of a slow but inevitable collapse?

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I'm usually a glass-half-full of gin kind of person but I've been having an increasing number of gloomy thoughts about where we're headed as a society. It feels as though we're losing sight of the things that elevate us and I keep imagining us as being in the same position as other, equally dominant societies shortly before their decline and fall.

I'm thinking in terms of the endless cycles of violence from which we never seem to learn; a rising general distrust of experts and science and evidence (anti-vaxxers etc) leading to outbreaks of diseases that were under control; higher education increasingly seen as important only insofar as it can produce graduates as economic units, rather than the value of learning for its own sake; the funding of things such as libraries, galleries, museums dropping further down the priority list; the tacitly state-sanctioned dehumanisation of those perceived as somehow "lesser", be that because of race, disability, poverty or whatever; climate change and an energy crisis with no real solutions...put it all together and it feels very bleak and End-of-Dayish.

Of course I can see that good things happen too, and also understand on an individual level that whether your local art gallery stays open or is sold off for flats is of little significance when you only ever pass it on the way to the food bank, but at a broader, society level it matters...doesn't it? And I'm not suggesting we're two days from anarchy on the streets and the entire collapse of civilisation overnight, but then all the dinosaurs didn't die on the same day. It just feels like this is the end of a cycle.

We're heading for another global war. We've forgotten what we learned in the last one and some cultures escaped the classroom altogether.

It'll be cathartic, but I doubt the global values we presently see as progressive will survive in a recognisable form. Not necessarily worse than now, but certainly different.

How long ? And when it runs out ? Or do you mean for a "snowed in" type situation.

The morning after the first night of the 2011(?) riots I drive to the supermarket to stick up a bit and was waved away by armed police. I drove around three suburbs but everything was closed in police advice.

So, I see her point about keeping short term ambient supplies.

I topped up on referendum day, for e.g.

drove^

stock up

Obviously not stick up, that would have been joining the riot.

(Has anyone ever killed autocorrect bloodily and with relish?)

About three months Lurking husband.

In a very worst case scenario, we may just prolong the inevitable for three months (although we have a large veg patch) but in the v worst scenario, if we make it through three months there may be less people to fight over the existing resources, or a new normal will be being established. So y'know, not to be sniffed at.

Oh and thanks for the idea of lemon scented napkins! Essential!

Of course there is a school of thought that would say rather than stocking up on provisions, just stock up on ammunition and a gun. Because with that, you can have all the provisions you want ...

Here's someone who - 40 years ago - did think about the breakdown of civilisation.

If anyone manages to watch it all, do they find it prophetic, over the top, inapplicable, or just noise ?

www.dailymotion.com/video/xnwpsp_veetle-connections-s01e01-the-trigger-effect_tech

(p.s. notice the flight number as he speaks from the top of the WTC)

Society is heading for a correction, peoples demands on it are not realistic. For decades we have all got used to a certain 'standard' of life. We expect to have more money every year. We 'expect' to have health care for every condition & every drug no matter how expensive, unlimited energy, the latest phone, car, TV, games consoles, computers, clothes, a holiday abroad every year, roads with no potholes, trains that are always on time, parking everywhere we go, air travel, free education, free schools, benefits for being pregnant, benefits for having children, benefits for having an accident, benefits for everything, pensions, libraries, swimming pools, parks, organic free range food for all, a crime free country, a military, a cheap house to buy, affordable everything, world peace, an end to world poverty.... all handed to us on a plate from the state.

We have gotten used to an 'easy' life.

We used the schools, the hospitals, the mortgages, the services but we never paid the real cost
of all these things. For decades it has all been paid for by the massive DEBT we are loading onto
our children. We can blame the government, we can blame the bankers, we can blame everyone but it is us that has spent the money.

We have gotten used to an 'easy' life and we dont like it now that our rose colored spectacles are being removed. Society has to make a correction to a way of life that is affordable. I suppose it will be like weaning an addict off a drug. The longer it takes everyone the greater the unrest.

It is not right to make our children pay for our mistakes.

It is not right to make our children pay for our mistakes.

It may not be right, but it's what happens ...

I'd rather just eat and have petrol until I can drive west thanks lurk

Society is heading for a correction, peoples demands on it are not realistic. For decades we have all got used to a certain 'standard' of life. We expect to have more money every year. We 'expect' to have health care for every condition & every drug no matter how expensive, unlimited energy, the latest phone, car, TV, games consoles, computers, clothes, a holiday abroad every year, roads with no potholes, trains that are always on time, parking everywhere we go, air travel, free education, free schools, benefits for being pregnant, benefits for having children, benefits for having an accident, benefits for everything, pensions, libraries, swimming pools, parks, organic free range food for all, a crime free country, a military, a cheap house to buy, affordable everything, world peace, an end to world poverty.... all handed to us on a plate from the state.

THIS! And it is slowly coming apart at the seams

This was the article about comparisons between now and the 1930s

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/01/are-we-living-through-another-1930s-paul-mason

I'm 100% with you. But hope that recent events will cause a tidal wave of proactive

Totally agree OP. I was chatting to DH about this the other day - total despair about the generations coming behind us. No one cares about anything or anyone bar themselves these days - it's all ME ME ME. No one wants to leave school/uni and live on handmedown furniture and saving hard, everyone wants the high 5 figure salary and the gorgeous new flat/car/clothes right now. So they use credit, can't pay it back, accept the bankruptcy and do it all again as soon as they can. No old bangers here like we did, shiny new cars all on tick for a brand new driver.

Younger folk seem to want what others have, and will just take it, knowing that the law will not touch them. There's no consideration, no respect, no fear of repercussions. Whether its teenage high jinks or junkies looking to sell, nothing is safe today from light fingers.

I genuinely fear for the future of our country and industry when no one takes a pride in their work, their street, and their country. Blame is passed, whatever happened to standing up and being counted?

I actually remarked to DH today that I wondered what would happen if WW3 was to break out. Would our younger generations stand together? Would the men and women agree to fighting and working, scrimping a saving to make sure we survived as a nation? I think not.

It's truly depressing.

Just thinking about this some more, it feels like there isn't any part of the world that isn't affected right now.

Trump's popularity in the USA
War, inequality and climate change causing the dislocation of millions of people
The rise of the far right in Europe
Islamic Terrorism in the Middle East, Europe, parts of Africa and south east Asia
Bloggers, writers and journalists being hacked to death in Bangladesh
A coup and the consequent crackdown in Turkey
Difficulties in assimilating immigrants and refugees in Europe
China's rise in power and rapacious acquisition of the world's resources.

My battery is about to die but I could list so much more.

Wherever this world is heading it doesn't feel like it's a good place...

Eddie if you have any tips about how to save hard on a zero hours contract im sure there are many young people on here who will be all ears.

You cant win in society though. I was slut shamed and told i should be doing more than something for low pay on another thread when i mentioned i used to work in a sex chatline office.

Despite mentioning that i no longer did it she still intimated that im a sex worker.

And how i should be aspiring to more than retail which is another previous job ive had.

Moral of this tale............YOU CANT PLEASE EVERY FUCKER.

My battery is about to die but I could list so much more

I cannot think of a better way to show how much better life is today than in the past than this problem.

caroldecker I'm not harking after some mythical golden age - every decade has had its own problems. (Every decade has also had its technological progresses.) But the challenges we're facing now, as a society and at every level, seem so much more all-encompassing and insurmountable, as if everything is coming together at once, everywhere. Having the luxury of typing that on a shiny piece of electronic gadgetry doesn't offset what we're facing elsewhere.

Totally agree HelenaDove, it's not possible to always save and 0 hour contracts are a whole other argument! The point I was trying to make is that, and I'm stereotyping dangerously here, younger generations don't seem to believe in living within your means. Not everyone, but I see so many young people on low wages who just can't live within their means. The attitude is live now, pay later (or maybe not).

My husband recruits for his company, and he finds graduates coming into his industry are not willing to accept (decent) starter wages and work up.

I commented on another thread on here (not a thread about a thread, promise!!) where the poster was upset that the government would not be giving her tax credits for a third child, which upset her. I struggled to get my head round why someone would be expecting my family to fund hers, in a fashion.

I feel really down thinking that this is the future of our country - zero hour contract meaning people can't live with any certainty, selfishness, expecting the government to fund a standard of living, no wilingness to put other first. Even simple things like not chatting in a cinema, not pleasing yourself on the roads, allowing others to gain before you do - at every level, society is changing and it's not for the better.

I understand Eddie.

Yes you are talking about the same thread i was on. I saw someone on here make a very good point about how eventually there will be elderly people living in private rentals. That will present a new set of problems

We do have a generation who won't live within their means and complain that they don't have the same standard of living as other people who can afford it. But you can't just blame them because the older generation has brought them up to believe that they can have anything they want right now.

There will be a hard landing for millions of people but its called tough love.

I don't buy the zero hours argument. In America if you need more money you get a second and third job. Their are plenty of jobs out there if you actually want to work. Its almost undeniable that we have imported so many migrants to do jobs that we just won't do ourselves.

maths a lot of jobs where there are zero hours or part time hours also ask you to KEEP YOURSELF AVAILABLE JUST IN CASE extra hours become available.

So they expect ppl to keep themselves available just in case. Wanting to keep people on call without paying them to be.

If a doctor or a nurse wasnt paid for being on call there would be a public outcry. But its ok to do it to shop workers or care home workers.

It reeks of classism.

math from what I understand it's very hard to take a second job if you're on zero hours. They expect you to be flexible and available at short notice.

Did anyone see the article in the guardian today about EU workers and UK food production. My prepper side is going to go full on very soon.

I know where you are coming from. However we have so much freedom compared to other countries. I watched panorama about north Korea and it is frightening. We are really lucky considering what we see on the news.