To be gutted that I won't be getting tax credits for 3rd child?

[GutenTag]

I'm just wondering what people's opinion is really.

We are trying for a 3rd child and I won't be getting any tax credits for this child as the government has changed the rules so that from next year tax credits are only paid for up to a maximum of 2 children.

I currently receive around £1k of TC for the kids and I would have received £4k for the 3rd if the government hadn't made the changes.

That would have meant an extra £250 a month. It's a lot of money for us. My DH works and I'm a SAHM. We have a £100k mortgage on a small house in a deprived area of town. We get by. We don't have much money left each month and I need to save literally for everything. I'm really really gutted. I really wanted 3 kids and this has meant that I'll be financially alot worse off now.

Of course I don't expect the government to "pay" for my children but it would have really helped, that's all. It would have eased the pressure off.

Just for the record we have never received any other benefits apart from JSA when DH was made redundant last year which was a godsend as we would have been homeless otherwise.

Do you think AiBU to feel/ think like this?

Absolutely, why should poor people have any pleasure at all? If they want to enjoy themselves they should pay for it. Sex-scrounging bastards!

I knew my post would elicit that reaction.

Thankyou very much. I don't have to. I cut my cloth according and don't rely on tax credits at all, they just come in handy.

If you don't need them don't claim them...

You really aren't coming accross well Lindsxxx

I can't reasonably say that what you are feeling is unreasonable but I can see why government stops these credits after 2 children. Over the years, the system has been heavily exploited (not by you specifically but many people). Taxpayers funds are not a bottomless pit, so the government has to draw that line somewhere.

In your particular case, you have just DH working, which means just 1 person contributing to the overall pot of taxpayers funds. However, the same pot then has to provide access to all public services not just for him but also for you and 2 kids you already have. That means that other taxpayers are already funding that access to free schooling, NHS, roads and everything else you may be able to enjoy in this country. To say you don't claim any other benefits is not entirely fair in this situation as we all enjoy benefits beyond what our government would term as such.

I don't mean to be offensive but the government simply cannot afford to subsidise however many children everybody wishes to have. It is unfortunate as we all wish that government funds were unlimited. Sadly they are not and there are also other people in society, who are in desperate need of support for various reasons. Government funds need to be balanced for everyone to enjoy at least some benefit of the taxes they pay over the course of their working lives.

You want another child that you can't afford and expect others to go to work to pay for it when you can't be bothered to go to work yourself to pay for your own children.

You should be embarrassed

Apart from anything else - if you don't home Ed, can you really claim to be a "full time parent"? Surely if you are expecting someone else to educate your dcs, they you are outsourcing a significant part of raising your dcs. Working parents adding an hour either side to that are hardly giving their dcs a massively different life style.

It's rather hypocritical to make a song and dance about wanting your dcs only to be raised by you/their other parent if you hand them over to someone else to do the hard bits from 8:50-3:30 daily.

I'm a SAHM, not a fucking saint, my dcs have a slightly different childhood to the classmates with working parents, I don't claim it to be significantly better, but even if it was - how is it right to expect working parents who pay taxes to remove the "downsides" of my family's choices, when to do so requires them to pay more tax, take home less pay and therefore remove one of the "upsides" of their families' choices (that of higher family income)?

Working full time is NOT compatible with being a full time parent and if you can't see that then you're delusional. Nobody has the capacity to hold down two full time jobs. You just keep telling yourself that your kids aren't missing out as you ship them off to nursery/childminders/out of school club, I don't really give a fuck because I'm here for my kids. Always, no ifs no buts.

Well as a cm I should tell all my 'teacher' parents to put their pinnys back on and get back to their kitchen then shall I? What do yo think they do at nursery/cm? We dont lock em up in a cupboard all day?

Who the frick would teach the local kids if they did that? There is a real lack of teachers at the moment and who would be the first to complain if classess doubled overnight cos all the 'mum' teachers went home?

Many parents dont like the thought of leaving their kids with someone else, I know I didnt but like many parents I didnt have a choice.

I was a nurse, should I have stopped working after my maternity and given up 20 years of experience cos you dont think mums should work to pay for their childrens upkeep? What if their oh's wages dont pay for everything, even with tax credits? There are manual/unskilled workers in cities too who have to pay city prices on a low wage. Its not always feasable NOT to work once kids are older. Just cos you can do it doesnt make it work for the whole country.

Tax credits are great for their purpose, to help those on low wages make ends meet. (The zero hours contracts should be scrapped, it should actually pay you to work not be taken advantage off, and not get more for doing nothing)

Its not a lifestyle choice, its pretty selfish to say, "I cant be arsed to work but I will keep having children cos the government will pay us enough to scrape by on if we scrimp and save like we are ALREADY doing"

We would all like 'more' of something but thats just life, we cant its not rocket science.

"Working full time is NOT compatible with being a full time parent and if you can't see that then you're delusional. Nobody has the capacity to hold down two full time jobs. You just keep telling yourself that your kids aren't missing out as you ship them off to nursery/childminders/out of school club, I don't really give a fuck because I'm here for my kids. Always, no ifs no buts"

This is offence bollocks. My children are beyond lucky to be growing up in a family with 2 FT working parents.

It isn't so simple as not being bothered to go out to work to pay for children.
by the time childcare has been paid many can't afford to work.
If this means that the little they get in tax credits allows them to sah, so what. It's hardly a wage when you compare it with the average ft income.
I'm not suggesting it should be either, btw.

We all have different circumstances, and have to make different decisions.
Tax credits work for some but not for others.

My aunt is in her 80's. She gave up work when she had her kids and then as soon as they were old enough she was back at work doing cleaning jobs while they were at school.

Her husbands wages (long hours down a pit initially then promoted but still crap wages) got them by for the bare necessities but for anything extra she needed to work. Its not a new concept.

Gillybeanz

But this isnt the case for the OP she doesnt work anyway and wants the gov to pay her more money to have more children and is p's off that they wont.

There is a big difference in chosing a lifestyle and making the best of what you have.

They system is flawed, it shouldnt be the working parents who are penalised. People should be supported when working their arse off for less than their neighbours sitting around with no intention of working as they are better off on benefits. (and yes there are people like that, its not an urban myth) Its wrong.

I am not suggesting all parents should work full time, I am suggesting that the system is overhauled so parents can work when kids are in school/around their oh/ before or after school and should be supported to do so if they have low wages and cannot do without benefits.

Shit happens, some people are left in the lurch, the benefits should be there as a safety net for them too but not long term but until they get back on their feet and can get working benefits.

I accept that this isnt happening anytime soon, but its always the people who need it the most who get clobbered by benefit cuts, I dont think saying if you WANT MORE (not someone left in the lurch) kids than you can afford then tough....

So basically Clara. What you're saying is.
Only rich people can shag.

Willow I don't work and haven't for over 20 years.
We've had TC all this time for 2 dc then 3dc then 2dc and now one.

Childcare is expensive, some people can't afford to work, the choice is taken away.
It isn't black and white like some people seem to think and I don't think going out to work and it costing you to do so, without making any profit is something to be applauded.
I think it's stupid tbh.
Why would anybody do it, especially as it means leaving their dc.

I can see it if you are career minded or can afford it, but either way it doesn't make you morally better than somebody who can manage on a small top up because their oh job doesn't pay enough.

If they want to help working parents then simply higher the personal tax allowance and make childcare tax deductible or allow people to claim x percentage back.

That way, the number of hours worked or amount of children doesn't come into it and it's fair to all. If a person then doesn't want to work then they must self support and if they only want to do a few hours then again can do so only if their own household can cope with the salary. Much fairer, stops the lazy and entitled and helps workers. Win win.

Sorry, how are working parents penalised?
They pay tax and the gov decide where the money goes, we don't get a say in it because the rich don't care about the poor, including the mc who they deem poor.

We get by. We don't have much money left each month and I need to save literally for everything. = OP

Gillybeanz you are missing the point.
OP's post says quite clearly that they are only just scraping by now yet she wants the gov to fund her having more kids. Thats wrong.

I never said I was better than anyone else, I get tax credits too. What I said was that you shouldnt get more money for staying at home and having more and more kids than parents who both work and cant afford to have more kids. Thats wrong.

Working parents should be supported more, not penalised for trying to work.

Has the OP not been back since Saturday?

I wanted 3 children, I couldn't afford the third - so could you all sort that out for me please. If you could do that by Friday it'd give the other two something to play with over the holidays and obviously, we're entitled.

Working parents are supported and up on the deal in terms of career progression at least, it's very tricky getting back into the work force after even a brief break and it's rarely at the same level

I didn't read it like the OP was expecting anybody to pay for her choices.
She was stating the fact that tc only pay for 2dc now.

The OP actually said Of course I don't expect the government to "pay" for my children but it would have really helped, that's all. It would have eased the pressure off.

At one time until recently you were able to claim for as many children as you had.

So basically Clara. What you're saying is.
Only rich people can shag.

If I fell into poverty now, I don't know if I could keep my spirits up against all this hate.

I hate three really impoverished years in my 20s but I don't honestly now if I could come through similar again in one piece. I'm older, society is meaner.

If I found myself skint again and then had read some arse in the Internet opining that I should damage my marriage by insisting on celibacy because of the financial dire straits we were facing..... I really don't know quite what to say about someone like Clara

I HAD three really impoverished years in my 20s but I don't honestly KNOW if I could....

At one time until recently you were able to claim for as many children as you had.
Yes but some people abused that system and it was no longer affordable. I cannot believe that people feel hard done by because they are unable to have taxpayer's money to fund a third child that they themselves cannot afford.

Goodness, I can't believe this thread is still going. It seems I have stirred up quite a few of you.

I must admit I think there are some really narrow minded and nasty comments on here and I don't mean every single person who said to get a job/ state shouldn't pay for my kids etc since I dont expect the government to pay for my 3rd or subsequent children either.

I wont be basing my decision on having a 3rd child on whether I get any money from the government.

TC are being cut. I won't be getting any more. There will be other cuts that I'm sure will eventually affect some of you in another way whether it be a closure of a local children's centre or a park or something. Would you be entitled if you felt gutted that you could no longer benefit from those facilities?

But OP, you aren't already benefiting from Tax Credits for a 3rd DC, you are benefiting from TC for the 2DCs you have, you just won't gain any more money if you decide to have a 3rd - it's not like you are losing something you already have. You will get exactly the same amount of money, and just have to work out if you can afford out of the resources you already have at your disposal to have a 3rd DC.

(It's more like saying you are upset because there won't be a new park or children's centre opened up near you, not that the ones already there closing.)