Is my definition of smart casual unreasonable... DS17 thinks so!

[kurlique]

DS has work experience in an office looming and he has been told to dress casual smart... To me this means trousers - not jeans - with a shirt - not a T shirt - and shoes - not canvas deck shoes. DS was a bit eye rolly about no jeans but has conceded to this and the shirt wasn't an issue but he thinks that I am unreasonable when I say that it is not ok for him to wear his "smarter" (ie clean and not wrecked) black Vans canvas deck shoes. Now it is a long time since I worked in an office but canvas shoes just seems too casual to me. What do you think?!

Exactly my first thought pigletjohn. The lack of socks make the outfit leisurewear, not office dress, IMVHO

Better socks and Vans than no socks and proper shoes.

All those outfits need to be about three sizes bigger as well

«misses point»

I would second just going on Monday and hanging round the entrance to see what others wear, then make his decision based on that

YANBU about your idea of smart casual but YABVU to refer to Vans as 'deck shoes' !

I missed that about the vans. These are deck shoes and whilst in my opinion they are the epitome of suburban dad at a bbq naff, but are acceptable as smart casual wear in a way a pair of vans aren't.

Vans to my mind are unambiguously trainers.

This is an architects firm so a professional workplace and therefore likely to be smarter than some people with experience of creative industries suggest.

I work in a profession and have experience of various workplace dress codesize. I would strongly suggest he errs on the side of being too smart. It will create a better impression and mean that he is fit to do client facing work. If he is judged too casual on the first day it could impact the work he is exposed to as they might not be confident that he will present himself correctly.

Having work experience people can be extra work and it can be difficult to find them good work to do so it is really important that they try really hard to create a good impression. They also need to bear in mind that they may want to apply for a job there in future so it would be far better to be remembered as the smart one than the one who turned up in trainers

I work in a smart casual office but even post room staff wear shoes shirt and trousers. The only ones who don't are the IT staff and facilities who have uniform polos boots and trousers. If a work experience turned up in trainers or deck does or converse they wouldn't be allowed to come on a client visit or be seen by clients and they may find themselves doing the photocopying!

My bad... I guess I would call Vans sneakers but I am pretty sure my kids call them deck shoes. There is no way I would be able to get DS to wear the deck shoes shown above (& yes I would call those deck shoes too) - his octogenarian DGP wears them and I can't even get DH to wear them! I certainly wouldn't call his Vans trainers they are perhaps a bit like a plimsoll?! But not like a green flash pump or converse... Less laceage!

We have gone for black suede lace ups... He refuses to wear brown shoes!!
I did contemplate watching the office but it has a shared entrance so I wouldn't know who was from the right business.

And as for wearing any shoes other than flip flops without socks... I would never be able get him to do that! (Even if I thought it was an excellent idea for this occasion, which I don't!)

I can't understand why he wouldn't want to put across the best possible attitude on his first day of work experience.

Those crazy kids ... I'd call them skate shoes, but I guess deck shoes make sense as they are designed for grip and stability on the skateboard deck. But well done him for eschewing the old man deck shoes.

Shoes with no socks is a bit too Miami Vice/Howard's Way for me, plus think of the blisters!

Architects wear black.

He should check with the office manager what the dress code is but basically you can't go wrong with black. His smart black vans will probably pass but he shouldn't wear them without black socks and the black suede lace ups are a better option for the first day.

No cream, no bright colours, no logo T shirts. White shirts or black shirts. Short sleeved may be acceptable if black. A tie would be too much - unless black. Hipster scarves are sometimes acceptable if not too brightly coloured but not on the first day.

Listen to Lexilooo. She is spot on.

I work in law firms and this is exactly my experience.