To be genuinely baffled by what seems like a growing absence of basic spelling skills?

[LadyStoicIsBack]

I'm not asking from a judgmental standpoint before I get flamed but rather a very genuine 'I just don't get it' kind of way...

I went to a bog standard inner city primary school and before I left, so age 11, knew the difference between words such as you're, your, there, their, and they're (alongside aisle as opposed to isle as another example); yet all of those being used incorrectly seems to be increasingly commonplace. And that confuses me as I know my primary education was nothing special and very def. know I do not know all I'd like to yet I'm (maybe incorrectly?) assuming that all others born into same system would have had the same basic education and thus would know the difference* between their own their/they're/there??? And no, I very definitely did not have any fucking kind of support 'additional parental support' so I don't think that can be the variable either.

So has basic Primary education got worse, or is it I'm just getting old or something and thus noticing it more? Genuinely curious as to other's equally anecdotal observations or their professional experience of this.

[*I'm obviously not referring to anyone for whom English is a second language, nor anyone like DS3 who has SEN]

YANBU OP

However I think the deterioration of spelling has been happening for decades and predictive text cannot be blamed for it.

This is a generalisation but judging from my circle of friends / family / colleagues etc. I'd say that people over 55 have perfect spelling. Younger than that and the spelling gets worse the younger the person is. Bear in mind that this includes some Welsh-first-language speakers whose written English is impeccable so I honestly don't think that ESL is a factor. I wonder if this matches other people's experiences and whether it can be linked to specific changes in the curriculum.

I don't think that people have become stupid or that their minds have been destroyed by computers. .. they have been let down by the education system. Remember all the MN threads about teachers and headteachers who can't spell and how anybody who dares criticise that is shouted down because apparently "it doesn't matter".

So maybe the answer is that it doesn't matter. That nobody cares. Of course freaks pedants like me care (and boy do I judge) but that is completely irrelevant.

Spelling and grammar fell off the radar in basic education and this is the consequence. I was barely taught any grammar at school and went on to be an English teacher - I had to teach myself grammar, beyond the basics we covered at uni, to be able to teach effectively. Many of my colleagues just didn't have a clue and certainly didn't see it as important.

Spelling and grammar is one of the main foci of primary and secondary education in light of the new expectations for primary and the new GCSE spec. for English. It is quite controversial as it seems to be way OTT in many ways, focusing heavily on the names of grammar terms alongside what they actually do. Its thought that if everything is taught using the same terminology from day 1 then it will be second nature.

I can see a lot of positives to this but many, many negatives. I agree that there needs to be something in place to fix this problem but I can't see how our children are going to be anything other than confused.

You knew what they meant though Marklah, you didn't start to ponder flowers at boarding school?! It's sloppy but, in most cases harmless.

How does "10 items or less" grab you Foxy?

I am a secret grammar and spelling nazi for sure. It saddens me that many people think it's unimportant, that as long as the message is understood, it's received.

Why do people think it's cool to be wrong?

Btw this nrver extends to typos. Im very forgiving there. (see what i did?)

Well, my brain can spell, but my fingers often won't be told.

picka ive hit 'post' on some shockers

I have 3 bright DC - who all dislike English as a lesson - I don't remember hating it like my children do - they're very segmented tick box type lessons - collecting evidence etc

I'll give you an example - Y9 class top set have 4 fact sheets about a medical case - doctors parent victor and another family each give their reasons for or against an operation and the children write about their thoughts.
Lowest group and looking at missing words from a sentence - their there they're etc - because they haven't past that section

Why? Why can't the lower group join the debate? Why isn't their opinion worth while and a bit more interesting? It's so ridged!

fast yeah only 14

Sometimes himself likes to be acknowledged on holiday too 😆

I think teaching grammar became unfashionable as it was seen as stifling creativity. A generation or so therefore didn't really learn it well. Now it's back on the curriculum, but that same generation is having to teach it.

Ah, leave him home tibba

I'm pedantic. I care about correct spelling, punctuation and grammar, but it's a requirement of my profession, not just a personal preference.

I can't 'un-see' a mistake, it's what I'm trained and paid to do, but it's not a personal criticism if I point it out, just a factual thing.

I stand corrected!

Sorry Op, others I've encountered said they had no support when actually they did have quite a lot of the things i mentioned on that list. They dont make the connection between a good homelife and having the capacity to do well in school. Tbh I didnt either until I worked in a prison. Now THAT was a good education!

Ashamed to admit this but I'm 36 and I have no idea how or where to use "your/you're"

I understand their and there.

I really struggled all through school and nothing came easy to me, I have just asked my 11 year old dd and she said the same she understands there/their and gave examples but despite knowing the different spellings of your/you're she doesn't know how to use them.

I will make it my missing this summer to teach myself and her before she starts secondary school

Spelling errors really bother me, but the truth is that it's not that important. English is the only language that has the concept of spelling bees, as other languages spell words as they are spoken. I think that your spelling is just a quirk of how your brain works, rather than a sign of intelligence or superiority. And, language evolves over time, so the spelling of any given word isn't particularly meaningful. That said, I still judge..

Completely agree that it's far more noticeable these days, and for all of the reasons stated so far. I take pride in what I write online, and it was drummed into me at school, and home, that English is so important if you want to be understood.

The blogzine Selfishmother.com really gets my goat; mostly Mummy bloggers whose articles are peppered with cringey typos and errors. Nobody seems to proof read anymore.

dating don't want to be that guy but shall i tell you now or do you want to do that yourself another day another way

When people type, or indeed write, there are for some individuals, two very distinct processes, one is thinking what to say, the other is recording it. For very aural people, they dictate to themselves, but the recording one can often write homophones. It's a subset of people (interestingly much more common in various attention deficit conditions) but it doesn't tell you anything about the people other than they probably haven't proofread their internet comment.

Writing tends to be a slower activity than typing for many so it can be less prevalent, and more importantly we see so much less informal written text from people, so we don't notice. This is simply the first era where we get to read a huge amount of informal rapidly written text from a lot of people.

datingbarb if it helps, you're is short for 'you are' and is only used in that way. Your means 'belonging to you', so if you could expand the word to 'you are' e.g. you are cold, then it's you're you want ('you're cold') If not, you want your e.g. 'do you want your hat?' You wouldn't say, do you want you are hat?

It doesn't seem to be confined to the younger generations, I see plenty of pretty much illiterate people on FB, and it seems to be as bad in older people. I do think there's more semi literate young people though.

Foxyloxy, I rather like "homewears" I imagine a three bedroom semi in a marvellous new hat. No, a fascinator!

I thought my spag was ok until I joined mumsnet. I got so confused by so many different rules and found I didn't fully understand apostrophes etc that I started doubting myself and my spelling got worse.

I have a degree in English Literature but was taught very little grammar in my English/Literacy/can't remember what we called it at Primary and Secondary school. I think it fell off the curriculum when I was at school in the 80s and 90s; we did lots of spelling tests but no explanations about correct grammar usage. I also went to private school- again no grammar. However we were taught grammar in French and Latin lessons, just not in English, oddly. DD tells me that they are given instructions about English grammar at her primary school, so maybe standards may improve in future.

I'm late forties and grammar and spelling were seemingly drilled into us. I remember weekly spelling tests, grammar and comprehension exercises every week.
My ds is incredibly clever, he has As and A*s in 11 GCSEs, 4 As at A2, a degree and a Masters and yet he still makes really basic grammar errors although his spelling is perfect. I've no idea why he doesn't grasp there they're and their, you're and your and he uses would of/could of/ should of no matter how many times I've tried correcting him.I did though proof read his dissertations and correct his errors. I can only assume it wasn't drilled into him when he was in primary tbh and it definitely wasn't corrected in secondary as I raised it occasionally.

LongDivision Most other languages have homophones, and they have the same issues with typing/spelling, although they can certainly be much less common in many languages. Going from a pronunciation to a spelling certainly tends to be easier in most of the other major languages so spelling bee's don't exist, but those are not the classes of errors people are talking about here. You don't get asked to spell you're, or homewares or there in a spelling bee, and if you did, the people would not be getting them wrong.

littledrummer plenty of hot salted water and boil for 10-12 mins