More a 'Who is being unreasonable?'....

[Amy0039]

I take DS to the public swimming baths every week, we use the main pool for the most part, as the toddler pool is too shallow to practice his swimming in. At the time we go, half of the main pool is set up for lane swimming (lengths) the other half is free use. Most weeks there are people doing lengths in the 'free' half of the pool, which I don't have a problem with in itsself, but when I'm teaching DS to swim by doing widths with him, I often cross their path. I try to scootch out of their way, but I don't always see them as I'm walking backwards dragging DS. It's not always an issue, but a woman doing this earlier was very rude in telling me to get out of her way, and this isn't the first time I've had this response.

AIBU to expect people to use the lanes if they wants to swim lengths uninterrupted? Or am I being unreasonable expecting her not to use the 'free' half of the pool?

Rather I should say (because I am not sure how quickly babies can actually learn to swim), babies who can move underwater etc and hold breath seem to be less fearful of water, which is a positive them. My dd never really learnt to swim as a baby but she grew into a child with a great joy of the water and did learn to swim well when older, and no fear. She had baby swimming classes and carried on with swimming classes for years. until I had a baby and tried the classes I would not have believed it. I had never heard of it before.

italian OP's child is 20 WEEKS. It is a tiny baby and could be in the toddler pool.

Its lovely that you are so keen to give your child so much attention, enjoyment, support and opportunity. This is an attitude that will truly benefit your child in the long run.

However you are misguided to take swimming so seriously at this stage. A bit of splashing around in the toddler pool is just as much fun for him, and safer and more convenient for other pool users too. You can sit or walk on your knees a bit if you want to pull him.

It is really, really ok if the summer holidays "sets him back" a bit anyway, all children get set back a bit every summer break, and you know what, the parts of their education they have to learn twice are often the bits they remember most securely and confidently 5 years later!

Particularly swimming, it will be fine, really. In a few years time it will not make any difference at all whether he goes swimming every week or twice a year at this age. If he is good at swimming, and enjos it, he will work at it and do well. Howeveer, like many of us, you are likely to spend hundreds of pounds and feel great pride in progress for years, then find you hit an age, earlier or later, when the child has just had enough, and wants to put their time and energy into something else.

Thats fine too, DS1 was an "advanced swimmer" at 5, but prefered basketball at 10, and now, at 15, swims occasionally for a bit of fun on holiday, nothing more.

That's fine though, he can still swim, not so well as he did at 5! but he enjoys it occasionally, he has happy memories ( and badges and awards) from swimming when he was little, and is still good friends with other swimmers he met when they were little, even toddlers.

In the end, you want a happy, well rounded child, who feels confident that he has your support in everything, and I can see your child is going to have this, without you having to worry about his progress in swimming at 20 weeks.

Scarydinosaurs it really depends how one defines tiny. Twenty weeks is 5 months, not so tiny but yes, I did get confused with 20 weeks and 20 months and called her a toddler!

But the OP has made it clear she wants to continue to practice the baby swimming techniques she has learnt and this cannot be done in the toddler pool. the toddler pool is not necessarily a safe place for tiny babies as it is full of boisterous toddlers and older all splashing about. And it is not designed for swimming in. Our local pool has two pools and one has a very low area and a slightly deeper area. No idea what the OP's pool is like. But she has chosen to use this bit for free swimming with baby. I cannot see why people find this so hard except they don'y understand what baby swimming is.

Babies who can swim enjoy the water, and are less likely to drown no, statistically, children who can swim are at far more risk of drowning than children who can't.

There are certain circumstances when being a swimmer is an advantage over being a non swimmer, such as accidentally falling into warm, still, salt water when you don't have clothes on, and by sheer chance are one of the small proportion of children who don't get an automatic panic reflex in that situation.... but generally no,

On the other hand a lot of children drown because of over confidence in the water., children who think that just because the can swim well in a pool, that they can manage the same in fresh water, deep water, cold water, tidal water, etc. and don't realise these situations are totally different

Long "safer and more convenient for other pool users too" does that mean the OP needs to think of everyone else and not her son when she has paid to use the pool? Do we all do that?

You are right we should not stress about these things too much. I think it can be hard (sometimes) when something they have enjoyed stops being a part of their lives but it may be time to move on.

Probably at 20 weeks there are not that many things a young baby does regularly! Swimming is something one can do and really enjoy.

Why should the OP be stuck in the toddler pool to avoid getting in people's way!

long "statistically, children who can swim are at far more risk of drowning than children who can't." really where are you reading that? I know that they would be at more risk if they were allowed too much freedom near water on the basis of 'they can swim', I am not suggesting that at all. But if a child who can swim falls into the water and a child who cannot swim falls into the water are you really saying the child who cannot swim has more chance of surviving?

I know that water temperature etc would be a factor but it would be the same factor for children who could swim or not. Are you just meaning confidence could be over confidence? Or do you mean being able to swim is a disadvantage for children in water safety?

I think I should really have said 'Children who can swim enjoy the water, and are less likely to drown' instead of 'Babies who can swim enjoy the water, and are less likely to drown'. So are you saying that being able to swim is not an advantage or did you mean specifically for babies. I think in all baby swimming situations an adult would be there, no one should leave a baby unattended near water ever.

OP I took DD2 swimming yesterday, we finished chapter 3 last week so we went (1) to practice her skills, (2) because she enjoys it, and (3) because all organised mum/baby stuff stops for the school holidays so we needed to make our own fun. I completely understand why you went! And whilst we managed to do enough in the teaching pool, we couldn't do everything she'd do in a deeper one. I just wimped out because the main pool is colder.

In your case I'd say SWBU to insist on swimming lengths down the middle of the free swim area, and should have moved either to the lane or the edge of the free area to maximise space available for all other swimmers. Since she was clearly determined not to, perhaps you could have tried swimming partial lengths, and just turned around when it got too deep for you.

But if a child who can swim falls into the water and a child who cannot swim falls into the water are you really saying the child who cannot swim has more chance of surviving?

no, I'm saying they have exactly the same chance of survival, but the child who can swim is far more likely to be in the water in the first place.

I think statistically, something like 16x more swimmers drown than non swimmers, but you can probably find the figures for yourself.

Re the " children who don't get an automatic panic reflex in that situation" I think that is one of the things that baby swimming can help to instill in babies. But again, I would not be ever recommending over confidence, you are totally right long that water conditions vary, the sea could be very dangerous for children only used to a swimming pool etc.

You sound like you know a lot about this, we will be going swimming in a lake this swimmer, can I ask if there are any extra considerations there. It is a recognized in land beach and might even have a lifeguard. DD is an excellent swimmer as is my dh but me and ds not so much.

OK, with a DD who does baby swimming and as someone who likes swimming lengths in the free bit, I think YABU on the whole, because there is a dedicated pool for little kids and not everyone likes lanes (I am a slow and rubbish swimmer and in the lanes, people always try to overtake me or tailgate in an irritated way). Although length swimmers in the free bit ought to stick to one of the edges, as you say and I wouldn't shout at someone doing widths!

I suggest using the free bit during 'family swimming'.

OK long I see what you are saying, that is a pretty scary statistic.

It's a good reminder not to be over confident.

Obviously in the free part of the pool no-one has a right to object to other people doing widths. However, with a 5 month old you don't actually need to do widths and it ought to be perfectly easy to keep out of other people's way.

Well I bow to long's superior knowledge on this, (seriously not sarcastically). I thought I had read a lot about drowning, (I am quite fearful of that) but I had not taken into consideration about over confidence near water.

I still feel learning to swim, and starting early are really important. My mum never learnt to swim (because she was pushed into a pool as a child) and it is just a very useful life skill. but not being over confident, especially in different conditions like the sea etc seems a wise reminder in this holiday season.

My BIL has been a swimming teacher for 25years and says that, in his experience, the children who were taken to baby swim classes have much less water confidence than those who didn't go.

He didn't teach his own children to swim until they were 3.

There are two stages of drowning , aquatic distress is a response which causes the sufferer to splash and create noise to attract attention, then the last 60 seconds involves coming upright, keeping legs still, spreading arms and raising mouth, this might win the victim one or two more breaths and extend the possible rescue window by maybe 100 seconds. At this stage they will not be able to speak, understand instructions, or move their legs.

No amount of swimming instruction will overcome these reflexes once a child panics, or is overcome by currents, coldness, panic, drag of clothes, etc, or quite often, no trigger is ever found.

The NHS now says you can take your baby swimming before or after immunizations.

www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vaccinations/Pages/parents-questions-about-childhood-vaccinations.aspx

long since you are very aware of this, what is the answer for kids. I am sure you are not saying children should not learn to swim.

we will be going swimming in a lake this swimmer, can I ask if there are any extra considerations there.

just the same as anywhere, be aware that the final stages of drowning often consist of the victim spreading their arms out in silence and tilting their head back to breath in, and that you cannot give verbal instructions to someone in that condition, and that children often drown because this is mistaken for play.

And to be aware of secondary drowning, which happens after a child is pulled out of the water and is breathing again and seems fine, but may have inhaled enough water to dilute their blood and destroy blood cells, and this can kill a day or two later... particularly if they have inhaled fresh water, ( this includes bath water)

and tertiary drowning, in which a child dies a week or more after inhaling water, from a subsequent lung infection....

Not trying to scare anyone, water is fun if respected! and swimming is great exercise, and a lovely social activity. It is worth being aware of these things though.

Long thank you excellent advice. It is good to be reminded.

I am very aware of water dangers from living in places with quite wild waters (like Australia) but aware, because of that toddler who drowned in a pond a few years ago, that it actually takes very little water. I know some people have things like old bath tubs in their gardens and when it rains these fill up and can become drowning hazards (yes, really some people put flowers in them).

Ha. This has made me chuckle. And OP I say this as someone who started both DC in swimming 'lessons' at 6/12 weeks. Trust me he's not really swimming yet... My nearly 2 year old isn't swimming yet and I'd say she's progressing normally within the classes.

But I get that you want to keep him going to the pool over the summer. It's great to keep him familiar with it all.
I'm also a regular leisure swimmer so I get that it would be infuriating to have someone going backwards around the pool. I also disagree with pp that you can use the toddler pool, not for all of what you'll want to do with him anyway. It sounds to me like it's the backwards position that's causing an issue.

Are you in the position where you have your arms straight, going backwards shoulders in the water, thumbs over his shoulders to support him? If so you really don't have much visibility to see other swimmers as your focus as a parent will always (rightly) be on your DC. Is he starting to get a bit of head control? If so you can move to a chest hold position - hold him facing forwards,your hands under his arms with your fingers at his chest and thumbs at his back. Have him close to your body and to one side so he's near one armpit. You can do all the same exercises but as you are going forwards not backwards you can see other swimmers to avoid them.

LyndanotLinda - What has being incontinent got to do with anything?That's what swimming nappies are for.

Uh oh cross poster, it's all moved on whilst I wrote my response. Talk of drowning definitely hasn't made me chuckle...😳

Is this your PFB by any chance OP? Perhaps as his isn't really swimming you could just do half a length which sounds like it's would avoid the problems it sounds like you are experiencing regularly. It must be a bit annoying for someone swimming lengths, whether you think they should be or not, that someone with a small baby is marching across the pool repeatedly without being able to see, and therefore take into consideration, what others are doing. or maybe you could try explaining about not wanting to set him back so they understand