To be struggling with gender disappointment

[Apachepony]

Well, I know I am but I guess this is an anonymous forum for speaking emotions that are leaving me feeling very guilty about my newborn son. I posted here under a different name when I found out on my scan it would be my second son but I thought it would go on birth. He came a month early, but did really well, was v healthy for being premature and I was delighted with him. I rationalised the odds of getting an elder boy, younger girl (what my ideal would have been)were not that high and I was delighted with what I had. However my two good friends were due at the same time and they both now have had girls. They both have older boys. Now I seem to be fixated on this, kind of wishing that I had a girl and feeling guilty that I am pretty much wishing my son was a different baby. It's even affecting how I feel about my older boy who is a very boisterous 3 year old. I'm wondering how I will cope with 2 of those. I'm feeling bad that none of my friends have boys close to my second sons age. This is really affecting my newborn buzz and I do t know how to shake it. It's so ridiculous when he's healthy so far.

Allthemadmen just what are you suggesting?

My youngest was born very ill and I completely get what some others are saying about the "What matters is you have a healthy baby" thing. Gawd that's some shit a HV who hasn't a clue would come out with (and believe me while my DD was very ill I met plenty of those).

OP

You've slightly "gone off" your older one because you've just had a baby. He seems big, and maybe slightly annoying. I get it. It's still unfair on him.

... remember he's little. His boisterousness might be because he doesn't know hat to do with himself. I used to look at my older DS and think he was huge. Poor little thing. It will all come right, just try not to pin everything on a fantasy of what boys and girls are like.

Why are these threads always people disappointed to have boys?

I can understand hoping for one gender or the other when ttc but not disliking a child who is actually in your arms purely based on whether or not they have a penis. Honestly if gender mattered that much to you, you shouldn't have had a second child. Don't take it out on your oldest either that's not fair and will confuse him. (and yes I have 2 boys - a 4yo and a newborn)

If you had a daughter though she might not have been what you wanted as you have some specific view of what that is. Being a girl or boy does not presuppose their relationship to you, their personality. I have two daughters and a baby son. The girls are very different and I am sure the baby will have his own personality too.
I suspect you need to consult re pnd. Becoming a parent appears to have been hard for you. Please seek help soon for the benefit of your children as if you develop a resentment they will pick up on it.
(My gran is from a family where the youngest (a boy) was desperately longed for by their mother. It still affects her).

strawberry

I had a scan to find out the sex of DS2 so I could think about how I felt about it beforehand. TBH, either a girl or another boy worried me in different ways (ways I now realise were just illogical projections of my own feelings, not based on dealing with the individual child you have in front of you)

I agree that the disappointment in boys shows that the pressure of stereotyping is strong/stronger towards boys.

OP I would also urge you to think about whether this is really gender disappointment, opt the stress of having a baby and a toddler. As I said before, I found it really hard at first

I understand where you are coming from and I am beginning to see this issue as strongly part of the current gender debates which also lead to gender confusion in children and adults.

It is really not about the sex of the baby but the gender stereotypes we feel we have to follow with them.

I have two gorgeous little boys who I love more than life itself. But yes, when I found out they were boys I did 'mourn' the daughter I would never have. I still do sometimes, usually when a friend has a new baby girl or I spot a new range of beautiful girls clothes somewhere.

But in reality, my boys are people first and foremost. I cannot determine whether their personalities are due to being boys or just being children, and it really doesn't matter, because they are just fab the way they are.

Much of the problem is how rigidly defined and reinforced stereotypical images of boys and girls are these days. Your baby is born, you have to have a colour coded congratulations card and clothes to match. That's how it starts. Then later down the line you find yourself wondering whether the toys and clothes you buy them, and the activities you do with them are gender-appropriate. What nonsense we are compelled into contemplating!

My older son loves playing with pretty much any toy going. He does love cars and trains and building but he loves being creative too. Recently I had thought he was beginning to conform to stereotype as he showed more interest in role playing games than arty activities so I though, 'oh ok, I mustn't push him'. But just now he has been wanting to get his colouring things out and did me to sit and draw with him. So it was just a phase, nothing fixed in him at all. And from a developmental point of view, it will gives him a rest from using his gross motor skills to concentrate on fine motor skills for a bit.

I do sometimes long for the pretty girls clothes. I wonder if this is in part due to the more gender neutral clothes and toys I had as an 80s child and I would have quite liked those clothes for me rather than my older cousins' hand me downs.

But a frivolous anecdote to finish with. Yesterday I was in Next and saw some absolutely beautifully patterned baby girls' rompers. I felt the familIar pang of longing to have an excuse to buy them if I only had a daughter. Then I turned round and spotted exactly the same pattern on a baby boys shirt. I bought it. Who needs a daughter anyway?!

Oh and I bought myself a couple of pretty tops too

I have three boys. I love them dearly, more than I could ever put in words, and I still wish I also had a daughter.

Sometimes when I do little things, like give my four year old his nightly footrub on the chair in my room and am down at his feet, thoughts like this come into my head - you're a boy and here I am, soothing and comforting you so you'll have a good night's rest and it's just as likely in our world the lesson you may take from this is that I'm teaching you women are there to serve at your feet. If he was a girl, the message might be different e.g. doing something to show her how to take care of herself in a world where women are often told not to do that. But he's not a girl and the world does treat boys and girls as different species sometimes, even if I don't agree with that.

None of this means my beautiful precious little four year old boy does not deserve his mum to give him this loving soothing touch. It just means that I recognise that in the context of our world, boys are more likely to be socialised to then derive the meaning from this that it is something they are entitled to from women, or something that women are "for". Obviously I don't mean the foot rub per se.. but we know that men in general have an implicit bias towards seeing women as caretakers in ways that can reduce the freedom of women. That's not a biological thing they got from being born with a penis. It's how society teaches them to view gender and no amount of anything I do will reduce the influence of that enough that it won't shape them in one way or another.

I wish my boys didn't have to grow up in a world where these types of different meanings are imposed onto the care given by mothers to their children depending on arbitrary assignment of gender but I'm not so stupid as to think "they're all the same" and "it's all in my head". It is different, raising boys and girls. It shouldn't be.. but there's no way around it. If I raised them genderless they would still have to interact with a world that will teach them what it is to be a boy and I have ZERO control over it - and a lot of problems with many things they will be taught. I can only hope to do enough to dampen down the entitlement and potentials for difficulty - but I cannot guarantee it.

And people wonder why people are disappointed? I've no disappointment in my beautiful kids. I do have disappointment that they are going to be shaped by gender narratives I absolutely bloody hate. I would have felt it just the same if they were girls.. but at least modelling my own ways round it would have been likely to have more influence in that context.

fusion

Does your DS see your DH caring for you? That's how you address this

..and not only that, does your DH care for your sons, massage their feet?

Does your DH clean, tidy and shop?

That's how you address it, too

YANBU, it is how you feel, you can't change it.
I tried to conceive for 4 years and was still disappointed when the scan showed it was a little boy. I love him will all my heart obviously and wouldn't swap him for another child now that I know him

I wanted my DD to have a sister with a bond like me and my Dsis, then i realised honestly they might not even get on nevermind be best friends and the way she looks at DS now had proved to me that the "dream family" is the one you've already got. I'd speak to someone professional incase of PND but honestly you're making a positive step just by accepting it so congratulations on your baby and don't feel too guilty you're allowed to have feelings

Oh and I didn't want a boisterous boy and DS is the most placid thing in the world and DD is a hurricane of a child lol

Congrats on your baby!

You're brave to admit how you feel and I think it's taboo to admit you're disappointed. Fwiw I have two girls, 2 and 4. The older one is very boisterous and noisy and I feel expectations are higher as she's a girl - people expect girls to sit and play quietly. These stereotypes are quite damaging. They are different in.personality but get on very well. I would have been happy with two boys of one of each..children are all different. I hope you feel happier soon. As your ds2 grows up you'll see him as an individual too and gender will seem less important.

I get you OP. I'm the mum of two boys, and many friends, plus both mine and DH's siblings, all have one of each. Part of me grieves for the daughter I won't have.

I started to examine why and it all started to unravel.

Buying girly stuff? I can buy it for my niece's and friends' daughters instead. Although lots of them are very ungirly!

Teaching them things I know about being a woman? A lot of these things feel quite superficial. More important to teach kindness, respect, compassion. I can teach those to my sons. I can also teach them that women are equal to men.

The mother-daughter relationship? I don't have a particularly close relationship to my mum so I know there are no guarantees.

Weddings and babies? Again, no guarantee any children will get married or have kids. I know many PILs who have wonderful relationships with their GC.

I think what hurt most is/was the reactions of others. Underwhelmed or asking if I was disappointed. Plus congratulating those people who have one of each like it's some special achievement.

Oh and OP, my DH really struggled to bond with DS2. They are so reliant on mummy in the early days and babies seem so alien and helpless and possibly boring and cry loads compared to a 3 year old. I'm pleased to say that once DS2 started smiling and chatting to DH it really helped and their bond is fine now. It was hard for me though and I don't think helped my own feelings.

strawberry

Yes, a lot of them are about having / not having girls, which seems a shame. I know a few dads who have said they would be dissapointed to have a girl though. My DH wants a boy. We have one DD. We are planning to have one more DC at some point and I know he is hoping for a boy. Is it maybe just that some people want to have a baby, which is the same sex as they are? Don't know.

I did see a thread though a long while back where an OP had two boys and was expecting her third DC. She had just found out that she was having a girl at her scan and she was gutted! It does happen that way too.

strawberry I think it's because this site is primarily (I'm guessing) used by women, and I think that a lot* of women would like a daughter, just like a lot of men would like a son. Not to say that men don't want DDs or women don't want DSs. Just that a lot of women would like the experience of raising a DD rather than not wanting a DS, and same way around for men.

If there was an equivalent forum that was just as popular and high-volume in terms of male posters as this one, I think it would be the other way around.

*That's not "all" by the way. It's "a lot".

Stevie

I think it is fair to say that some of it's just about having the same sex as yourself.

We all tend to be pretty egocentric and have a child who is "like" us in some way (and gender seems like a big way). We think we'll re-live some of the stuff we liked as a child, and maybe make up for some of the stuff we didn't like, or get to do.

I think having two or more of the same sex makes you see that your DCs can be like and unalike you in so many different ways, regardless of their sex.

I completely, 100% understand how you feel op. I actually think it's normal to feel that way. Some would, some wouldn't. But I also think you have to be open to the reality that you will feel completely different in a couple of years, and wouldn't swap them for the world, because what you actually have is personality, not gender. That's what will affect your life, not he gender of the children.

I have two boys, I would have liked a daughter. Now 13 and 11 what time has taught me is that having a sibling of the same gender has been absolutely the best thing for them. I would still have liked a daughter though.
I think most (not all) women would prefer a girl and most (not all) men a boy. In fact there is a wealth of research to show that men are far more likely to leave the family home if his offspring are solely female.
Gender stereotypes are far more blurred when hundred are young but by the time they reach double figures socialisation has really set in. By this age and older the vast majority of girls don't play football or rugby for example, or boys paint their nails and do dance. I wonder if this is why parents, men especially as they are the ones that tend to walk, feel the experience of parenthood isn't always what they had anticipated.

CPtart

I think it depends how hard men are prepared to work to meet their daughters half way. The fathers I know with daughters do things like cycling with them. It depends how engaged they were with their babies at the beginning.

It depends how much the men concerned like ruby or football - not all men do!

As for boys - I watch Strictly Come Dancing and Real Housewives of Beverly Hills with my rugby-playing DS2, and have come to enjoy and be interested in things i discounted as a girl (lego, Astronomy), with my DS1. He's the one who is empathic and sensitive too.

The only thing I don't get to do with my DSs is go shopping, which is just as well, because I like to be alone when I do it.

The one period when I had a pang and felt a bit lost, was when my DSs were physically fighting a lot. I had no experience of that and it really worried me. Friends with two DDs tell me their kids used to fight too, though

Oh yes not I know of two sets of sisters who got into physical fights even in young adulthood (horrible I know).