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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be glad that the Guardian is making enormous losses

678 replies

longfingernails · 26/07/2016 02:39

www.pressgazette.co.uk/guardian-losses-reported-to-have-escalated-by-a-further-10m-to-68-7m-for-the-last-financial-year/

Great stuff. Their chatterati condescension, Islington moral vacuum and politically correct echo chamber has been a malignant blot upon our society for decades.

Let it wither upon the Viner.

OP posts:
sweetsummersweetpea · 30/07/2016 16:42

No, but when you dig down and look at the data, you find that people wildy over estimate how many immigrants there are in the country
Your posts really are making me Grin now Grin

What data small?
How well documented is it, that we never collected data Grin.

Wasn't one guy posted once in Dover with a high viz and clip board and may have approached some in comers asking where they were from and how long they were staying> In a totally random haphazard way?
There is simply no data to dig down into.

sweetsummersweetpea · 30/07/2016 16:44

for impacts on services caused by austerity

But austerity had kicked in before the CC Confused before the labour government were booted out.

Small, your doing a grand job here for showing us all why the Guardian is so incredible narrow.

sweetsummersweetpea · 30/07/2016 16:46

sadly anyone thinking they've voted against the establishment was utterly deluded

I think anyone thinking that leave voters did so to kick the establishment are deluded. I am sure some did, I am sure it was part of why some did, but I feel most voted - leave to you know, leave the EU. Grin

smallfox2002 · 30/07/2016 16:59

The Poll was conducted by ipsos mori : Its called Perception is not reality. It presents difference between what people perceive, e.g what percentage of the population are immigrants. We have a fairly clear idea of the % of the population that are EU immigrants.

The immigration debate was one of the biggest parts of the leave campaign, and the right wing media ( and to an extent the Conservatives themselves) have sold lots of papers pandering to people's prejudices regarding immigration for years.

Austerity had not kicked in before 2010, it was a conservative policy, its well documented that their Austerity policy strangled the growth that was occurring in 2010 and led to very low levels of growth and quarters that had negative growth between 2010 and 2011.

The "Kicking the establishment" thing is well documented, its not the only reason but it certainly is a reason that a sizeable minority of people voted to leave this again is and was well documented on here by posters crowing about it (notably Claig).

A large number of people in the leave vote, voted based on misinformation and fear tactics (Turkey will join and millions will come here)

You really make me :) with your attempts to discredit me, but your not really a challenge are you dear.

CuboidalSlipshoddy · 30/07/2016 17:07

A large number of people in the leave vote, voted based on misinformation and fear tactics (Turkey will join and millions will come here)

David Cameron 2014:

"In terms of Turkish membership of the EU, I very much support that. That’s a longstanding position of British foreign policy which I support. We discussed that again in our talks today”.

David Cameron 2010:

“I’m here to make the case for Turkey's membership of the EU. And to fight for it.”

smallfox2002 · 30/07/2016 17:12

Turkish membership is a future possibility, not in the near future as was spun by the leave campaign. It certainly was never going to be fast tracked!

CuboidalSlipshoddy · 30/07/2016 17:17

Turkish membership is a future possibility

Perhaps people thought that given they had a referendum available they may as well solve the problem now, rather than hoping that there would be a referendum later.

It certainly was never going to be fast tracked!

Perhaps people didn't want to take the risk, having been lied to repeatedly over A8 immigration?

smallfox2002 · 30/07/2016 17:26

Bit daft to shoot yourself in the foot because of something that is a futre possibility isn't it.

Even though A8 immigration was wrongly predicted whats the problem with it ? It accounts for about 2% of the population.

GiddyGiddyGoat · 30/07/2016 17:34

OP you sound very ... ranty.
Do tell which newspaper is the lucky recipient of your custom and chimes with your own firmly held world view.
What's wrong with islington? You think everyone in N1 is a privileged leftie??
Good to know there are tolerant and open minded people like yourself out there OP.
I too shall make sure to subscribe asap - thanks for bringing this to my attention!
Have a nice day...

Surferjet · 30/07/2016 17:38

It's always sad when any company starts failing, but I'm not really surprised at this news, the daily mail is the only paper with their finger on the pulse.

smallfox2002 · 30/07/2016 17:46

To be fair the Guardia has made losses for ever, it isn't news.

The Mail has its finger on the pulse? I really hope not, but I think you're right.

CuboidalSlipshoddy · 30/07/2016 18:21

Even though A8 immigration was wrongly predicted whats the problem with it ? It accounts for about 2% of the population.

It accounts for rather more than 1 in 50 school places in many towns.

Fomalhaut · 30/07/2016 18:21

what you wanted was the Guardian to criticise the religion and culture of these men and lay the blame for it at their door

I want to know what part culture and religion paid. The jay report certainly seemed to think it was a contributing factor.

More to the point i don't want the media muzzled from asking these questions because right now it seems like screw vulnerable girls, sod women, who cares about feminism, as long as we don't offend religious men. Bugger that. Religion needs (really needs) sharp critique. If it doesn't, it becomes a corrosive force. If it has critique it is reigned in, becoming more like your average Anglican Church or your local synagogue. Part of the community but not a force to be feared.

Can you not see the difference between being desparate to bash the Pakistani community (bad) and being unable to even investigate for fear of offence?

No one has a right not to be offended. Women have a right to be safe. Young girls have a right not to be passed around like meat.

Fomalhaut · 30/07/2016 18:24

Even though A8 immigration was wrongly predicted whats the problem with it ? It accounts for about 2% of the population

Tell that to teachers in page hall in Sheffield, or hexthorpe in Doncaster. I'm sure they'll agree with you...Hmm

RedToothBrush · 30/07/2016 19:04

This is one of the most depressing threads I've read in a long time. It reflects a few things.

Firstly how little we value and understand democracy in this country.
Secondly how important the media is to upholding democracy and keeping it accountable in a healthy manner.
And thirdly how valuable good journalism is for all of us - whether you agree with the opinion or comment made.

This comes a time when journalists are being rounded up in Turkey too, which makes it even more infuriating.

A healthy media should reflect a wide range of different opinions and political persuasions and a wide range of interests of different people. It should be owner by a number of different people in order to ensure that power is spread and not concentrated in a small number of media barons. It should be both localised and national. It should report both domestic and international issues. It should provoke debate and discussion.

Just today, I've been reading on twitter about the decline of local journalism - @Gareth_Davies09for anyone who wants to read - and how it has become little more than click bait. Local media provides local accountability. It also helps people keep in touch and get their voices heard. If you want to talk about why people feel that they are not listened to by Westminster then there is one reason right there. Its not just about local MPs being out of touch. MPs need to know about things going on locally, and if the media don't help in that process, an important force is lost.

Al Jazeera was formed because the western media only provided a voice based on European and North American thinking. It didn't and doesn't value the lives of people living in the Middle East as equal. So Al Jazeera was formed to try and fill that void, and provide a voice - a peaceful, political and powerful one. Put this into context of the alternative being civil unrest and you start to see why this is so important.

The Guardian, might be leftie liberal and not appeal to everyone. THIS IS A GOOD THING. It represents the views of a certain group. It helps to encourage debate, and it helps to challenge ideas that might be wrong. This does not mean the Guardian is always right. In fact it is often blinked in its own thinking, and I won't deny that. But it works and is valuable because it is part of something bigger. It is part of a range of different newspapers and allows people to choose and think critically. if anything we need MORE left leaning perspectives in our media. It is a criticism that Corbyn has had. Not necessarily as highbrow as The Guardian but from a different point of view.

The level and quality of journalism that exists out that, that properly quotes and sources what it reports, rather than simply having a very strong editorial line, is shocking. Again, this goes back to local press and trying to chase advertising revenues rather than talking about important issues and the core problems in society and politics. Its more about popularism and sensationalism. Which is very unhelpful and ends up polarising society rather than being a force for meaningful change that is to all our benefit.

If you only have a few newspapers which reflect a very narrow view point and a very narrow ownership, power becomes concentrated and it leaves democracy open to abuse.

The media is changing a great deal at the moment, due to the internet and falling revenues from the paper press and the ability of people to blog and share ideas through social media. This however, is not a substitute for established media networks and journalists who have the skill, ability and background knowledge and most importantly are purely focused on get to the bottom of an issue because that is their job and they are paid to do that.

Journalists get a hard time in this country, because of the doorstoppers and the scumbags that do the sensationalism. Its unfair and it neglects to acknowledge the hard work of people who do make a different and do work to change things for the better, and do try and listen to the voices of the public.

If you want to slag off The Guardian because you don't like it, that's fine. But to say you want it closed down is just spiteful and akin to shooting yourself in the foot, because you want everything your way. The reality is that the closure of The Guardian would not achieve that. It would not achieve the goal of 'making people realise the problem of immigrants'. It would merely take away some of your chance to hold the government and 'the elite' to account.

Its like everything though, people don't understand things properly, until they are gone and they suddenly become aware of all the little unsung things that they achieved. Things that so many people around the world fight for as a form of liberty and part of democracy. Its so sad that we take this for granted and scorn it and deride media studies instead of celebrating what it actually protects.

smallfox2002 · 30/07/2016 19:28

Formalhaut, where n the Guardian were people saying that we shouldn't ask questions? No one ever said that girls shouldn't be safe.

smallfox2002 · 30/07/2016 19:32

"It accounts for rather more than 1 in 50 school places in many towns."

So what? Their parents pay tax.

Surferjet · 30/07/2016 19:36

RedToothBrush I agree. it's great to have a variety of media serving different tastes & sections of society, but the typical guardian reader is a dying breed ( well they're not, but no ones listening to them anymore ) society has changed an awful lot in the last few years, & like it or not, it has become more right wing.

smallfox2002 · 30/07/2016 19:38

Society hasn't become more right wing, why does the Labour party have more members than the Conservatives for example?

Surferjet · 30/07/2016 19:52

That's a false stat smallfox as a sizeable amount of those labour members joined within the last few weeks just to get Corbyn back in ( or out? )

EllyMayClampett · 30/07/2016 19:52

Labour may have more members, but it's widely believed that they would garner far fewer votes than the Conservatives in a general election at the moment. Which matters more? Which truly represents society?

I'd say that the Labour Party is pretty far off the political centre of gravity at the moment. I think we could argue the toss whether the populous has moved to the right or whether the Ksnour party has moved to the left.

EllyMayClampett · 30/07/2016 19:53

Ksnour?! Labour, of course!

smallfox2002 · 30/07/2016 20:09

Even before then Surfer there were more Labour members prior to the last few weeks.

I'd say Corbyn is probably off the centre of gravity.

The general election results that gave the Tories a very low majority aren't indicative of a society turning more to the right.

Justanotherlurker · 30/07/2016 20:17

I agree Red, I certainly dont want the guardian to go bust, not that they will with the trust, plus the fact that most of the headline figure is a write down.

We do need a wide and varied press, and as with Turkey i think we need to be very careful of trying to put slippery slope restrictions on the internet, which ironically enough, even after the much praised Snowden exclusive, the guardian is very much in favour of) but,I will admit that i am enjoying a bit of schadenfreude, they made a strategic move to go for the rage baiting op-ed's and then thrown a shit fit because of the comments they receive, they have also on many occasions been proven to be very hypocritical on the papers and individual columnists stance

Pilling in and putting the boot in is to be expected, (after all this is the Internet), but I will say that I think that the most ardent supporters of one publication over another over any 'perceived' bias, regardless of how widespread that 'perceived' bias is, as just being gullible/manipulated as being the foremost in making sweeping generalisations of not only the political sphere but activley wants to place restrictions on the opposing press angle, it just so happens that this thread shows the side from the left, I would place a fairly large wager that if it was the daily telegraph reporting huge losses (despite the fact that all publications are and journalism itself is going through a massive shift) this thread would have reached maximum long before now with nothing more than everyone flagellating one other.

I would say smallfox works for the guardian with her relentless highlighting only one fact to argue the point that the guardian isn't biased, but then I remember that an unpaid intern wouldn't put that much effort into it

Surferjet · 30/07/2016 20:20

Thinking more about the rise of UKIP smallfox - but, whatever, it's certainly an interesting time politically. :-)