to be glad that the Guardian is making enormous losses

[longfingernails]

www.pressgazette.co.uk/guardian-losses-reported-to-have-escalated-by-a-further-10m-to-68-7m-for-the-last-financial-year/

Great stuff. Their chatterati condescension, Islington moral vacuum and politically correct echo chamber has been a malignant blot upon our society for decades.

Let it wither upon the Viner.

Ghost that argument only works if we are competing for the title of Least Shit. What about Best?

Formal I am suitably impressed with your fame!

Agendas are only bad should the Guardian have one. Papers like the DM are all virtue and integrity. hmm

It isn't a zero sum game. And tu quoque is hardly an obscure fallacy to point out.

Ghost that argument only works if we are competing for the title of Least Shit. What about Best?

Well the Guardian remains one of the best on the grounds that it offers in depth journalism in the traditional broadsheet sense. I'm not a massive fan of the Guardian BTW but having a quick look at the likes of the Indy and the Telegraph the Guardian is far more comprehensive and balanced.

Cologne as an opportunity to press their own agenda

Highly likely.

The point was that they actually reported it.

Cologne was the straw that broke but actually employing Owen Wilson is far worse in my opinion.

Cologne was a mass sexual assault on hundreds of women. It's not an afterthought. This is exactly why a man might not be best placed to assess this story. I have spent the best part of four decades worrying about, experiencing, supporting my friends and family through, working with and dealing with the wider issues of sexual assault. What we do, how we dress, whether we are believed, how much we drink, how we travel and yes whether we go out at night, is dictated by the risk and fear of sexual assault. So don't minimize Cologne.

CuboidalSlipshoddy

Well it seems some MN'etters have an axe to grind with the Guardian whilst other papers seem to get little negative response.When the Guardian stopped BTL comments on some articles I recall a MN thread similarly to this one. The Telegraph closed its BTL comments completely yet this was met with silence. Is this about chatterati condescension as the OP puts it or the Cologne coverage?

Owen Jones!!!!!! Talk about editing. I quite like Owen Wilson.

Imagine if it'd been a mass sexual assault on young men? A thousand men and boys assaulted/raped/fireworks thrown at them.

There'd have been calls for blood. But men get to live in the public sphere without fear of sexual assault. They don't think 'hmmm... If I have that third pint and get raped by one of the lads I'm out with, it'll be seen as my fault.'

All the 'wimmins issues' campaigning in the world doesn't make up for their refusal to condemn perpetrators of violence if they aren't white working class men.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/08/cologne-attacks-hard-questions-new-years-eve

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/09/the-left-must-admit-the-truth-about-the-assaults-on-women-in-cologne

oh, and BTL comments were allowed on both. It took a 2 second Goggle search to find these.

Well it seems some MN'etters have an axe to grind with the Guardian whilst other papers seem to get little negative

Yeah. No one criticises the Mail. Ever. Fact.

The torygraph is irrelevant unless you are drawing your pension. Its median reader is in their late fifties.

I think other papers get little resonse from MNbecause many women here expect the tabloids/ daily wail/ torygraph to be full of prejudiced nonsense so aren't surprised when it ignores/ minimises a mass attack on young women and treats its readers as brainless idiots who should only be fed the party line.

Frank, look at the dates.

January the eighth.

The attacks were on NYE.

It took them eight days to acknowledge something had happened. There is no excuse.

And it wasn't long after they decided the great unwashed were not to be trusted debating immigration and Islam in the comments section,

When the DM is misogynist, it's like a wanker shouting abuse in the street. Annoying, possibly even dangerous but not personal. When the Guardian and the BBC are misogynist it's like an old friend saying something abusive. It's not worse but it hurts a good deal more.

I feel let down for the 16 year old me. First paper I read.

and yet plenty of MNetters are happy to start threads linking DM articles.

We still expect quality journalism from the likes of the Telegraph and Times I assume? Yet nobody seems to dissect these quite like the Guardian.

They usually preface it with 'sorry for the DM link' though ;)

It took them eight days to acknowledge something had happened. There is no excuse.

They are opinion pieces that's why. Here is an article showing continued coverage seven months later

www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/07/german-mps-back-stricter-rape-laws-after-cologne-attacks

The torygraph is irrelevant unless you are drawing your pension. Its median reader is in their late fifties.

Oh and heres me thinking all Guardian readers were bearded hipsters from Islington

The guardian is not seen as a strong venue for advertising polyester slacks and walk in baths. The telegraph is.

I'm not a huge fan of the guardian, but I don't want it to go either, I read it regularly online along with other sources, the problem as I see it is that they have lost there way, the blantent hypocrisy and agenda driven peices means that it has become a shadow of its former self, some of the long articles are good but a hell of a lot manipulate data to fit an agenda (like most) but there has been some shocking omission of facts that I know of in my field of expertise.

I think they, like others have succumbed to the click bait model of journalism but the guardian has appealed to a very niche crowed and introduced rage baiting articles that get shared across tumblr and the like, they are chasing there own tail a lot of the time, they have become a typical trope of the left of centre, make a huge stink of things like tax avoidance, unpaid internships and the like while doing the exact same thing.

Cologne was the last straw for me personally, not for the fact that they did eventually cover it but the fact that they also initially minimised it (before the edits), the eventual kick back of them spitting the dummy out blocking comments on certain articles because it didn't suit there agenda, comments are always a shit show and if they hadn't employed the rage bait CIF pieces they probably could have managed, the guardian picks are so out of kilter with the most recommended and very balanced comments they should have just dropped them altogether (the same as others have done)

The thing that did really turn me of them and highlight the hypocrisy of the paper was a good few years ago just before the financial crash, they had a long spread in the observer about the evils of BTL and how it is storing up problems for future generations etc, very good piece, and without any sense of irony showcased in the same paper the best places to snap up BTL homes in northern towns, one of the northern towns, was where I grew up, high unemployment, massive drug problem and low wage, they had no problem extolling the virtues of being able to afford a flat or terraced house for tupance comparative for the metropolitan wage whilst pricing out the locals in meantime.

I don't mind that they have an agenda, all news organisations do, the difference being is that a lot of the most ardent guardian readers I know will automatically discount any alternative view point because of some 'right wing, swivel eyed' bogey man, if stats aren't reported in the guardian then they are not to be trusted...

It's become a parody of itself and is eating its own tail, much like the Labour Party it needs a clear out and work out a real position before the trust fund runs dry.

Ghost, maybe expand your google search to critism of the guardians approach to Cologne, heck even look at some of the comments BTL on the CIF pieces about cologn, they didn't take it up initially (they where not alone), but FYI they also ignored a lot that was going on in Sweden around the same time and since because of an identity politics agenda, which is fine if that's there stance.

Better off, because I'll just bugger off and make new feminist blogs and MN friends. And still ignore the wanker because he'll always be there. Because no one cares about women being harassed and assaulted in the streets. Including that 'friend' The Guardian.

And it's not just Cologne and it's not just The Guardian. The BBC is getting worse and worse as well. Thanks goodness this place is here. I can rely on MN to link interesting, feminist, varied sources. Including primary sources.

I hate to play oppression Top Trumps but do you also think it's OK to tell other groups whether they are right to think what they think about racism, homophobia and other forms of oppression? I got rightly schooled but a Black poster about Canadian politics and I have kept that schooling with me. I can't help thinking you aren't really acknowledging that women might know better than men what is sexist or misogynist.

Just FYI, the Cologne attacks were basically not reported in the media till later, the Guardian covered them early on, even reporting on January 5th about the inquiry.

www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/05/germany-crisis-cologne-new-years-eve-sex-attacks

Now as there was a virtual media blackout in Germany which only started to shift around the 5th I'd say this was fine.

www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/05/germany-crisis-cologne-new-years-eve-sex-attacks

Further searches reveal the Mail reported it later.

I'm shocked to find the attidude towards the guardian on MN. Its one of the best investigative papers still going.

Also since when is the Guardian, which has chanpioned the everyday sexism campaign "misogynist", as well as employing both Laura Bates and Rhiannon Cosslett, and having led the campaign against FGM.