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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Trains: aggressive ticket inspectors

102 replies

ShesGottaTicket2Ride · 23/07/2016 12:52

I know that the ticket inspectors at major stations have a tough time with people who want to 'ride for free'.. as well as drunks, injuries, bad pay etc...(and I am VERY sympathetic) .. HOWEVER, my dd just had a really difficult time with the local ticket inspectors (we are in a big city). She'd forgotten her 16-25 railcard (had never forgotten it before)... and was travelling a long distance. It's her fault (and we told her so) but the ticket inspectors apparently reduced her to tears while 5 other ticket chaps stood there staring. The chap in question told her that she would get a criminal record, stood intimidatingly close to her, wanted to know her height (?... what was THAT about), and apparently said: well I don't know how you'll get home!.....' it's just that dd is a timid sort and the treatment seemed a bit heavy-handed. I don't know if any other parents have similar stories (I would be interested to know). I was talking to the local police (on another matter) and mentioned this incident... kind police lady said: yes - we've been getting a lot of reports about this sort of behaviour... do let us know if you have a problem like this again...

OP posts:
EBearhug · 24/07/2016 00:08

Complain. I once travelled from an unmanned rural station where the ticket machine wasn't working (really wasn't.) When I got to the main station where I had to change, the next train was at the platform already, so I just got on. I wanted to buy a ticket, but there was no ticket inspector on either train (I took the train today, and there was no ticket inspector on either journey, though I had a ticket this time.) I went to find someone to get a ticket when I arrived - and I was treated as a criminal, and wasn't listened to. I wrote to South West Trains to complain about how I was treated - no chance of innocent until proven guilty. I am sure they do have quite a few people who don't have any intention of getting a ticket, but I had had that intention, and they're the ones who didn't have ticket inspectors to sell me a ticket, and there was no excuse for speaking to me so rudely - there would have been no need for it, even if I had been deliberately avoiding buying a ticket. Anyway, I received a letter a few weeks later, to say the ticket inspector concerned was being disciplined. (I've no idea what sort of discipline, but at least they seemed to take it seriously.)

ShesGottaTicket2Ride · 24/07/2016 00:09

wheatchief - you are a ticket inspector and fed up with the public? (I hope I read things correctly!) .. I am sorry to read your post and I am sorry that you have been treated badly (I know that I would not be like that towards you!)

I (a middle-aged woman) rarely have problems but it just seems that my dd has - and generally, they are down to plain old lack of manners or kindness on the part of the inspectors. And that is what my real concern is here... how adults talk to and treat young people/kids...

While I am sure that you are kind and helpful, some inspectors are not. And while my dd has her parents (and teachers) for good role models, some kids don't. Kids do look to adults as examples and when ticket inspectors (as figures of authority) are unnecessarily mean, then they both undermine themselves and set a bad example.

furthermore, it seems to me that those ticket inspectors who take such issue with fare dodgers AND (of course) people who make honest mistakes (such as my dd) might be exceeding their authority as well as behaving unprofessionally. Of course, it's their job to ensure that people pay - but failure to pay is not a capital offence. Those inspectors should just write the ticket - or penalty notice .. but not treat people like a criminals.

I really appreciate all of the posts on this thread... my dd has had good view of the big picture!!

OP posts:
UnderseaPineapple · 24/07/2016 03:01

If this were 10pm at night on a train full a 6ft tall 6ft wide football hooligans you wouldn't have seen a guard for love nor money

I travel on Grand Central a lot and they have dry trains and security guards on board every weekend. They walk up and down the aisles constantly and will boot people off for being aggressive once the train gets to York (its direct from Kings X to York).

GC also allow you to buy tickets on board without the penalty and if you can't pay (e.g. card doesn't work), they allow you to settle the fare by post or over the phone. Shame they don't run the entire network as I feel all TOCs could benefit from how they operate.

Longlost10 · 24/07/2016 04:15

Yes, there is. That's exactly what you have to prove that's just not what happens, sorry

thisisafakename · 24/07/2016 07:23

that's just not what happens, sorry

Yeah, the crown prosecution service has got it all wrong. The OP's daughter will probably get thrown in jail for life. Even though the statutory definition of the offence includes intent, this is clearly not necessary.

FWIW I dealt with a few of these during my criminal seat as a trainee solicitor way back when. Many of them actually get settled out of court so even if your friends who made an honest mistake had been prosecuted, they should have made an offer for settlement which, if reasonable, would have been accepted if it was a very minor first-time offence.

OP what actually was the outcome of this? Did she get a penalty fare? Was she just refused travel when checked before boarding the train? Or has she actually been prosecuted, as this poster seems convinced she will be?

heron98 · 24/07/2016 07:25

There are exceptions obviously, but over the years I have been subject to some really vile train staff. They seem to be on a huge power trip. There is no common sense, understanding or politeness.

Longlost10 · 24/07/2016 07:34

as this poster seems convinced she will be?

I hope she isn't. I;m just saying I have friends who were prosecuted and now have criminal records for honest mistakes like this. I have also seen a lot of people get away with it. Two very nasty, sneery teenage boys just two days ago, who jeered at the inspector and treated the whole thing as a joke, were just asked to leave the train... i have concluded that it is the people who say "I'm so sorry, i made a mistake" are the ones taken to court.

ShesGottaTicket2Ride · 24/07/2016 10:38

thisisafakename --

DD has been sent some sort of form from the Debt Recovery and Prosecutions Unit. It asks for details, stating that it is an 'Initial Contact Letter'. After reading these posts I am worried she will be prosecuted!

She is only just starting uni after a gap year... .. and we've had to work to get her confidence up. All of this is so worrying to me.

I have written to Northern Rail about the behaviour of their henchmen (although some of their inspectors ARE nice...) and I told them what the police lady had said to me. If this goes any farther with the prosecutions unit I will write straight to my MP.

thank you again to everyone for sharing their experiences - I think I will let my MP know about these problems.

OP posts:
Longlost10 · 24/07/2016 10:39

get legal advice

Longlost10 · 24/07/2016 10:41

My friends have paid a heavy price from this, and some previous posters seem, rightly or wrongly, to think that a criminal record was avoidable. I'm not convinced, but if this was my child, I would pay what ever to give them the best chance of getting out of it.

AgentProvocateur · 24/07/2016 10:45

As an antidote to some of the experiences on here, can I say that I travel by train most days - for work and going into the city centre at night - and without fail there are people with expired cards or the wrong ticket or on the wrong train, and in every single case the Scotrail inspector has been helpful, polite and kind. it's just a shame their trains are often late and overcrowded...

Longlost10 · 24/07/2016 10:48

keep in mind though you my not know the full story. Standing intimidatingly close, and in large numbers IS actually how criminal are apprehended. She HAS actually committed a crime.

You really do need proper advice, because if she is legally unequivocally in the wrong, fussy about how she was apprehended, etc, is just going to lead to a heavier punishment.

If she can't get out of it, she just needs to admit it, if she CAN get out of it, she needs to fight it, but the worst thing to do is fight a conviction which is already cut and dried.

But I don't know which this is, and neither do you, nor do others on the thread actually have the full story.

being timid does not prevent someone being criminal! and i am struck by your comment that DD has had a LOT o trouble with ticket inspectors Hmm that is highly unusual

thisisafakename · 24/07/2016 10:55

ShesGottaTicket2Ride, yes I second the pp who said get legal advice. Is there an option on the letter to pay a fine or are they just asking for her version of events? It seems extremely heavy handed of them but the important thing is to keep lines of communication and negotiation open. Usually if you make them an offer at this early stage to pay the full fare plus maybe an amount in costs, they will simply drop it. I would also locate her YP railcard and scan a photo of it to them.

In the meantime, did she get the name of the man who intimidated her? Then you can start the complaints process at the same time.

lalamumto3 · 24/07/2016 11:02

Hi, my 19 year old dd had a similar experience with a 2 Virgin trains inspectors at Euston who reduced her to tears, threatened her, took her bags off her, all because she had forgotten her rail card . She had to buy a new ticket at an extra £40, her original ticket was about £10. They also threatened her with the police a criminal record. Other passengers offered to be witnesses as they were horrified by the 2 Virgin train inspectors behaviours, but she was too flustered and upset to take their details.

She complained to Virgin trains by email and also tweeted it, the tweet got an immediate response and after an ignored email, another tweet a month later was again responded to in under 5 minutes.

She had her passport with her, her student card and her Santander card (as a student you get a 3 year rail card with the Santander account). She was in the queue at the barrier, not trying to leap over it or travel without a ticket. In my opinion they were bullies and acted in a way that would not be tolerated in an other environment. I wonder how the big rail chiefs, in this case Richard Branson would feel if their 19 year old dd/ds was treated in this way.

My daughter fully understood that that she should of had her card with her, but the way she was treated was disgraceful.

I would encourage your daughter to tweet and email as the only way to deal with people and organisations that allow this type of behaviour is to stand up to them.

A simple purchasing change, such as linking tickets to the rail card on purchase, which must be possible, would stop this kind of problem. Sometimes the rail companies forget that young people are also customers.

Thisisnotausername · 24/07/2016 11:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ShesGottaTicket2Ride · 24/07/2016 11:07

the story is as originally stated...

as for 'a lot' of trouble with ticket inspectors... it isn't so much trouble as just arse-y behaviour ... ex: they will take her ticket (as she departs the platform) and examine it closely for several seconds while she just stands there (it's effectively, 'detention') .... whereas all my ticket (middle aged old bag) ever gets is a cursory glance and a 'thank you'.

and then, there was the ticket agent (when she and her sib) went to purchase tickets... who, time after time, would slowly count out their change in pennies and 5p pieces (he never did that to me!)... knowing full well that they were in a hurry. Funny how he didn't do that to the adults!

What disturbs me is the attitude towards young people. As for the 'prosecution' .. she fully admits to having travelled without her railcard... however, it was the actions of the ticket inspectors when they 'caught' her. She admitted it straight away, apologised, offered to pay the fine or purchase another ticket...and said she would provide a copy of her rail card. All fair enough.. but their actions were demeaning and belittling and we don't need people who behave like this in a fair and civilised society. If we don't fight it, it will just get worse (think of the G4S security guards at the immigration and detention centres).

My premise is, right or wrong, we need to treat people -- ESPECIALLY young people, respectfully - and the stories on this thread validate my initial proposition which is that, some ticket inspectors (probably too many of them) seem to not adhere to this. I think that there should be a code of conduct ..just as the police have. And when people treat you (or your child) badly, you should question it.

OP posts:
Longlost10 · 24/07/2016 15:31

Well I travel on buses, trains and tubes every single day, and have done for 20 years, and have never once seen a ticket inspector be impolite to anyone, old or young. I have seen a lot of abuse and accusations thrown at ticket inspectors

wheatchief · 24/07/2016 15:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Whinyleonard · 24/07/2016 15:51

I saw someone reduce a 50 something ticket inspector to tears the other night. If you were the nice man who stood up and told the black guy to sit down and then stood next to him until he got off at Woking, thank you for making a horrible situation less scary. I have been attacked in my work in the past and suffer from severe anxiety from in your face bullying like him. Why anyone would want to do a job where you get called names (stupid white trash old man) and threatened (i will come and find you) and then refuse offers of witnesses because "it's more hassle than its worth" is beyond me.

I suppose there are some assholes like in any job, being one probably helps.

I'm not minimising your experience, just wanted to share that.

Porcupinetree · 24/07/2016 16:28

I have a friend with Aspergers (it's relevant) who was treated appallingly about five years ago after boarding a train at a rural station (SW) and not managing to buy a ticket on the train. She was spoken to in an aggressive manor, threatened with prosecution, and kept for over an hour at the station (making her late for her work placement). She was left in tears and visibly shaking, she had her disability travel card and repeatedly told them she had an ASD etc. She was terrified.

thisisafakename · 24/07/2016 16:43

She was left in tears and visibly shaking, she had her disability travel card and repeatedly told them she had an ASD etc. She was terrified

How awful and disgusting. I hope she complained in the strongest terms to them. I in no way look down on the job of ticket inspector/conductor. I understand that they do have to deal with a lot of crap from the public. However, the stories on here (and from what I have witnessed too) suggest that too many of them take frustration out on those that are vulnerable or harmless. They would probably allow a gang of verbally abusive or drunk teen boys to ride without tickets or simply throw them off at the next stop, yet they threaten to prosecute an apologetic and upset teenage girl or a woman with ASD. That's not right.

purplevase4 · 24/07/2016 17:18

i am struck by your comment that DD has had a LOT o trouble with ticket inspectors hmm that is highly unusual

No it isn't. Guards on trains are generally civil at worst and friendly at best and sell a ticket without further ado. Revenue inspectors are rude, aggressive, and treat you like a criminal even if you are not. Many are foreign, so their less than perfect command of English can make it sound worse than it is, but I've seen aggression from native speakers as well.

It is worth everyone on this thread knowing that the rules say that you don't have to wait more than 5 minutes to buy a ticket. So if you get to the station 15 minutes before and can't get a ticket because the queues are too long, you CAN board and buy on the train. And before someone tries to tell me this is rubbish, it is set out in a DoT document and I have taken the precaution of having the relevant section printed out and carried it around with me in the past, although I've actually always been able to get a ticket before I boarded the train. Sadly of course, if there are ticket barriers, the staff simply won't let you through them, rules or no rules

purplevase4 · 24/07/2016 17:31

Here is the document: www.ircas.co.uk/docs/SRA%20-%20Penalty%20Fare%20Policy%202002.pdf

And it's also worth knowing that penalty fares are civil debts, not criminal notices.

Forgetting your railcard isn't really up there with hard core criminal behaviour either. Generally you'll either have to pay the full fare, or a penalty fare. It's only if you refuse to pay it that criminal action might be taken.

Longlost10 · 24/07/2016 17:38

Forgetting your railcard isn't really up there with hard core criminal behaviour either. Generally you'll either have to pay the full fare, or a penalty fare. It's only if you refuse to pay it that criminal action might be taken.

I'll say it again, this is NOT what I have witnessed in my friends, two of whom have been prosecuted and been landed with a criminal record or genuine mistakes, which they politely apologised for, and admitted to immediately and offered to pay the penalty fare.

In neither case was it accepted, in both cases they were prosecuted, and one lost a uni place this year because of it.

On the other hand, another friend accidentally travelled a home a couple of hours too late past the end date of a travel card, and got no penalty what so ever.

wheatchief · 24/07/2016 18:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.