to wonder when this 7YO will stop behaving like a 3YO

[snottagecheese]

So my DD (also 7) can be a pain in the ass with other kids from time to time (all children can, right?), which in her case - and, I think most 7YOs - means she can be stroppy and sulky and say mean things. But she has a friend/classmate who, quite honestly, behaves like a toddler at the drop of a hat. By which I mean that everything is unfair, everyone is mean to her, she whinges constantly and always wants adults to come and tell their kids off for not being nice to her or not letting her join in with everything they do. She has huge, screeching, incoherent, snot-streaming-down-the-face meltdowns, and it absolutely does my head in. She is NT, before anyone asks, and has no particular issues that I'm aware of as I know her mum quite well. When she was like this as a 3YO I simply put it down to her age, but 4 years later she responds in much the same way to anything that doesn't go her way (so it seems). I'm aware that maybe I'm being unreasonable because my DD is so different to her and older than her years (not a stealth boast, honestly, just trying to be frank), and I guess when I try to respond to her friend's behaviour I use similar tactics to those I'd use with DD - i.e. come on, what's actually wrong, let's sort it out and generally quite no nonsense. Should I try to be more gentle/understanding, or is this really just a bit ridiculous for a 7YO and am I justified in thinking that at this age it's okay to think 'Oh FGS...'

I am prepared to be flamed

She is NT, before anyone asks how do you know this? My dd was formally diagnosed at 8yo and prior to that she presented much like the child you're talking about.

It's hard to hear you say "oh FGS" and you're "prepared to be flamed " makes me uncomfortable.

She also sounds a bit like my nt dd at slightly younger. She could never understand why people who she thought were friends were being mean to her and sometimes seemed to enjoy upsetting her. It stopped when she got some new friends.

If 2 DCs have established a game with their own "rules" and have been playing for a while it isn't bullying to not include any DC who turns up and wants to join in. That would change the game. Sometimes they may be happy for others to join them and sometimes it's just a game for two. That's just playground life.

As long as one DC isn't always deliberately excluded then it's not a problem. Children move in and out of groups depending on their moods and what games they want to play.

If your DC does often play with the DC you mention then it's ok for her to not always play with her. DCs rarely always play with the same DCs all the time. It depends on the game. If it turns out that this DC does have some SNs then, of course you should encourage your DD to be kind. But that doesn't mean she always has to do what the other DC wants. Or that she always has to include her.

bumsex and thisisnot - of course, if there are 3 of them and 1 is excluded then of course that's totally not on and I absolutely wouldn't condone it. I just wonder about when there are other children around to play with but the child wants in on one particular group. Is it fair to force the group to include him/her?

This has all got a bit sidetracked though - I still wonder what the best way to respond to the hyper-emotional response is. If the other children are being mean then of course that needs dealing with, but how to calm/react to the upset child? And what if the slight is imagined/a misinterpretation? For example, floods of tears because they've been told 'he doesn't like it' when they've batted a soft toy on the head.

It depends if they are a friendship groups then it's unkind to exclude 1.
The tears are surely her parents issue to deal with?

Thornrose - I think she is NT because I know her parents well and I'm pretty sure I would know if she had been diagnosed (can't imagine they would keep it secret, but of course it's possible). However, as I said upthread it has occurred to me that maybe there is something else going on and that's partly why I'm interested in people's responses here. 'Oh FGS' is sometimes my (internal) response because I find her behaviour hard to understand, but again that's why I posted here - I'm quite prepared to be flamed and told I'm being a cow. I wanted honest opinions and I'm getting them. That's all good.

My 7yo ds is exactly as you a mm have describe, through no fault of ours, school I'd very supportive. He is just every emotionally immature. I would be gutted to read a thread like this about my ds. Because he knows his behaviour is wrong and is embarrassed by it. But cannot control his emotions yet. I THINK UABRU!!!!!

Lewwat fair enough - I probably need to be told that; it will force me to be more understanding and less exasperated. FWIW though, I'm pretty sure (though again of course I don't know) that she doesn't think there's anything amiss/unusual about the way she responds.

This thread is horrible. Unfortunately its developmentally normal for seven year old girls to behave in this way. Both the girls who are excluding and the seven year old throwing the tantrum are immature. Its not any kind of special need, its the fact that seven year olds are immature by definition. At seven years old empathy is something that needs development.

When my son was little the TAs used to run a "fun club" to help those who were socially excluded or little boys who got into fights. Often these children have weak play skills which results in them being excluded. The children who attended "fun club" did so by invitation for a half a term or so. There were are mixture of billy no mates type children and other children. I find it sad that the new head teacher at my children's school got rid of the fun club. The school still has older children as playground buddies who often look after younger children are hated.

ReallyTired - my post is horrible, you mean? Well, perhaps. It was born of frustration, it wasn't intended to be horrible but I can see how it might look that way. I'm still slightly at a loss about how best to deal with the kind of reactions I've described - and also how to talk to DD to have the best chance of her being empathetic. She doesn't know how to deal with it either - sees it as 'babyish', which while unfair, is her seeing the situation in simplistic, 7YO terms. I say to her 'well if you thought X was happening you'd be upset too' and she says 'but I wouldn't cry and scream', which is true. How to explain that the friend still needs her understanding?

Snottage - you could be describing my ds who is 7. His social skills are lagging (he "shows signs of having AS" but
is not formally diagnosed). We also have a large group of friends who meet up (we know each other from the kids class at school) and I have not gone to some parties in the past because the strain of judgement from one parent in particular and their child's attitude to my son. It's ironic really, he misses out on the chance to improve those skills and be part of the group more and I've missed the chance to have support. It makes me feel rubbish!

Reading through your previous threads, your daughter sounds like she has some behavioural issues too. Do people judge you or do they just accept that you are
doing the best job you can?

Teaching your child that everyone is different and reacts to things in a different way and to always use kind words and actions is very helpful. It also helps if you don't judge (I bet you reinforce that the girls actions are baby-ish whether you mean to or not).

I think this thread is mean because it is slagging off a small child. We do not know the other side. Maybe this little girl has to face bullying every day. Maybe she never gets a party invite. Maybe this little girl suffers so much pychological pain that she can not express it in words. She is overwelmed by the fact that everyone hates her at school and it comes out in tantrums.

Rather than worryIng about the behaviour of another child, focus on parenting your own child. You said in your initial post that she is sometimes mean.

The way to develop empathy in a child is model it yourself.

I agee with Reallytired.

"we have a secret plan/secret game" is bullying by exclusion and blaming the one who is upset is victim blaming. Yes, she might not handle it in the most mature way, but if it happens regularly is fairly understandable. Just because others handle it in a "more mature" way doesn't mean that they're not upset by it either.

It is not bullying not to want to play with a DC every time that DC wants to play with you.

If you never play with that DC, that may be exclusion and bullying. This is not happening here.

On the contrary if you always do so the child expects it and then you tell them to go away, that could feel like bullying.

You don't actually know if the other child is NT or not. She might well be - but then again she might not yet be diagnosed - or her parents may not have told you she has a diagnosis even though you are good friends.

My DS has aspergers and I think this has made me more tolerant of other children with behavioural issues regardless of whether they have SN or not.

I cannot bear when I hear parents criticising a small child's behaviour and being quite judgmental about it. Some people act quite superior about their own children's behaviour but sometimes it's because they've been blessed with a more mature child with strong social skills.

It can be irritating when children are constantly telling tales - but I would focus on teaching my own child to be kind and inclusive even if she doesn't necessarily feel like it. Sometimes it's nice to be nice.

I have another child with strong social skills and he was clashing with a boy in his class who's behaviour was not the best. It seemed to me that the other boy was causing the initial issues and then my child decided he didn't like him and was talking meanily about him. I spoke to teacher and asked her to keep an eye on both of them - and I spoke to my child and explained that some children take longer to learn the right way to behave - but we must not be mean to them but tell the teacher if there are any problems. These children are so young and many of them are only learning the right way to behave.

Not sure what you mean, Fanjo.

I'm sad to read your post too. I'm not really sure why?
Seven is still very young. Some children( in a school environment) are beyond bossy & controlling . In my experience,the children who are being 'managed ' by them come off worse . I'm a TA. I would love to do more work with the children to help them learn to play. Just because a child cones across as strong and confident doesn't mean they have met all their milestones either. It is a very fine line.

I've also got a seven year old daughter,so l can see it from home & school .

My nearly 9yo DD behaves like a toddler a lot. I just tell her to act her age.

I find get-togetherness stressful as ds is either crying because the others won't let him play or they are coming up to tell on him. Reception was particularly bad - one of the other boys (advanced for his age) was clever and used to tell my son to push him and then cried to his mum / us all (as we all sat together). I only realised this for sure when I overheard it. He's now stopped - mostly - but I know they tell him to do things to get him into trouble.

It's a shame. He has a few friends he can play with all day with with no falling outs at all. Unfortunately for him these friends live a fair way away so we only see them in the holidays. Most of the mums are sensible and either tell their children that they all have to play together but the one mum who is judgey makes me feel we shouldn't be there.

Yes I missed a comma, sorry, apostrophes

I meant if you always do, so the child expects it, and then tell them to go away..

I don't think the op is coming from a bad place here.

Her dd is having friendship issues with another girl and the op is trying to figure out a way forward.

Some kids mature at different rates, some kids are sensitive, some are easy company, some aren't. I think you need to take a step back and think of this girl as someone struggling. Try and respond with affection. Try and teach your dd the same. But ultimately not all kids make good friends for each other, and maybe that's what's going on here? Maybe they just clash? But if that's the case I don't know what the answer is.

Lots of DCs struggle with friendships and it's lovely when they do play co-operatively and include everyone - but that rarely happens.

If one child is constantly excluded then the reasons for this need to be looked at. If a DC is very bossy that is off-putting and they will find themselves with no friends quite quickly. If a DC will only play what they want to play and tries to dictate to the others they will be isolated also.

Co-operative play is a skill that needs to be encouraged as is the delicate art of compromise. Adults can help with this and by encouraging DCs to be inclusive as well as helping the excluded DC to fit in.

However, I firmly believe that it is wrong to force friendships onto DCs. Some DCs just don't like each other just as happens with adults. My niece's DD was forced to play with a DC she just didn't like every playtime, as well as having to sit by her. The other DC made a huge fuss if she didn't because she wasted her to be her best friend. Eventually my niece had to go up to the school because her DD was crying every night and didn't want to go to school and be forced to play with a DC who bossed her around, told tales on her and wouldn't let her play with anyone else.

Not fair.

*wanted her to be her best friend