The headfuck of post-separation finances

[bomfunk]

So basically, ex-H and I separated just over a year ago, not yet divorced, I have moved out of family home into rental. 3DC ages 2, 5 and 6. I have always worked PT fri-sun, so since the split we arranged our residency as follows:

Mon am - I collect kids from ex's at 7.45 for school run for the older two.

All at mine until Thursday pm, I collect from school and wait at ex's house until he returns from work at 4.30pm/ish (so Thursday, technically 'his day', but as I'm not working that day I'm happy to have baby during day and see eldest DC briefly after school).

Fri: again, his 'day' but I collect them from his house, do school run, get ready for work (11am-8pm) and drop baby off at daycare on the way, kids stay at afterschool club and ex collects all on Friday pm, where they stay overnight.

Weekends are strange. I have a very close (and large!) family, who have always got together on Saturdays for tea. Saturday's, exH and I 'technically' alternate, but in reality, probably more than 90% of the time I collect kids after work at 5.30pm, we do my family thing, and they then stay over with my DParents, who take them out / swimming or whatever on Sunday and drop DC back to ex on Sunday at 4pm-ish where they stay the night.

Ex has been very keen to establish that every other Saturday are 'technically his' - and that he 'allows' them to stay at my parents (my parents are younger, fit and adore the kids, love having them (practically insist!) on the weekend and have a good relationship with ex, so it works). It also gives ex a weekend night 'off', ensures the kids do something nice on the weekend with their grandparents who they adore. He only time this differs is if my DPs are on holiday, where we adhere to the alternate Saturday nights.

By establishing this 'technical' split, it makes it a 50/50 residence, so he gets to avoid maintenance (financial control is a bit of a 'thing' with him).

Still with me?!

So the thing that I am aibu-ing about, is that exH is pushing for me to pay half of the childcare costs for baby daycare plus kids afterschool club on the Friday. My argument is that it is HIS day, his need for childcare, and that I already go above and beyond, because I have the youngest plus do pickups and drop offs on his days (even though it's great for me as it means that apart from Sunday, I get to see them every day of the week). When I point this out, and that by doing more than my 'fair share' and really help him out because he needs to get to work before the kids leave for school, and that actually it costs me money, petrol, baby group and activity costs, basic food/housing type costs, he comes back with 'what sort of a mother would charge to look after her own kids'. I don't charge! And it benefits me greatly by sneaking in extra time with them, plus I think (hope) it benefits the DC being with a parent. I hate the quibbling, as it makes me feel like I'm arguing against taking care and spending time with my DC, and I do feel he plays on this.

So aibu to refuse to pay half the childcare costs? How can I articulate this without sounding heartless?! Any input greatly received, and please be gentle! First AIBU

[AyeAmarok]

I ran into him in the supermarket a few weeks ago and he took a photo of my shopping

OMFG!

[Notpissed]

I would Keep the children at yours on the days youre running around with them on "his" days. They then become "your" days and you get more quality time with your children rather than helping him feign a 50:50 arrangement in order to avoid his financial responsibilities.
Good luck though.

[bomfunk]

To clarify, on 'his days' - the Thursday morning the DC are going from my house, so I do the school run. The baby and I stay in my house/do baby group. I pick the DC up from school and wait at his house for half hour or so until he gets home.

Friday is also 'his' day, but I collect kids and do school run, go back to my home with baby, get ready for work and drop baby off in daycare on way to work. He then collects them from school / daycare, and they stay there until Saturday pm.

The Monday, I collect the DC for school. This is the 'handover' day as Monday is my day - through Thursday pm.

I can see a way forward in insisting that he take responsibility for the Friday mornings, because I am literally going out of my way to do a series of quick drop offs that he could easily do. This would be good for me, as it would be the single morning in the week that I could actually sleep in past 6am. If I wanted, I could sleep until 9am! (although I'd probably end up cleaning lol).

I wouldn't even mind so much if he was even a tiny bit grateful for my added input. He genuinely expects it, and doesn't see it that I am enabling him and his job (still), it is just taken as granted. Shake up in order I think!'

[KickAssAngel]

I'm betting he's already got a lawyer telling him how to make a case so that he doesn't have to pay you a penny.

Having the kids overnight, proving that you have enough to live on, it sounds incredibly controlling and devious.

I think you need to get your parents onboard. You know best how to handle them, but make it clear that he's trying to make you do ALL the caring for the kids, while trying to steal money from you and them for himself.

And don't for a minute think he's doing anything other than stealing from his kids. As a parent he should love them enough to see them being cared for in a good home with food and even money for extras like activities. Every single penny he cons you out of is taken from his children. Stop being nice. Be clear to people like your parents how he is attempting to deprive his kids, and get a shit hot lawyer who will protect you and them from his greed.

[Canyouforgiveher]

You need an excellent counsellor, with experience with women coming out of abusive marriages. And a shit hot solicitor.

This. absolutely.

He has you running around making all the moves that create the pretence he is a 50/50 parent. But the truth is you are doing all the hard bits of drop off and pick ups etc.

He is also having a great time exerting financial and other control on you even though you are separating - definitely getting his rocks off on that control I'd say.

If I were you OP, I would sit my parents down on their own, no kids, with a cup of coffee and explain to them clearly that he was abusive and controlling and basically they need to understand your point of view and show their loyalty to you. Because they do need to do this. And I would make it quite clear to them that you expect their full support behind YOU and your children and not their son in law.

Also text him and say "Friday is your day so won't be able to do pick ups /school run from next Friday on. Cheers"

Then please please go to that counsellor and lawyer.

[Canyouforgiveher]

I ran into him in the supermarket a few weeks ago and he took a photo of my shopping confused he said to prove I could afford food confusedangry

If he ever does this again, follow him around the store taking random shots of him, his ass, his bald patch, his shopping and when he asks you why say "I have my own case to prove" and look enigmatic.

Honestly he is a complete pill. How do these awful men get these nice women to marry them. They should develop a vaccination against it.

[43percentburnt]

Photographing your shopping! Yep he's a greedy one who has Definately seen a lawyer.

You need a lawyer that will take their fee from the assets or can family help?

Create a spreadsheet with assets on. Value of house - mortgage = £x equity.
Pension fund £
Savings
Shares
His income and what was it when you met.
What was your salary when you met.
Get the banks to provide statements etc of anything joint.

This will help the initial lawyer appointment take less time. Get a Rottweiler, maybe ask on here for recommendations?

Is he a shady fucker with money hidden or complicated finances? If so you may require a forensic accountant.

Do not be shafted by this greedy man. You will end up doing the majority of the child rearing and you will end up regretting giving him everything.

Also try and get stuff in writing, like why did you photograph me in the supermarket?

how much parenting did he do when you were together? I am guessing not 50%. Change his name in your phone to Greedy McGreedy to remind you you are not being unreasonable wanting your legal entitlement of assets but he is being extremely unreasonable on many fronts.

[43percentburnt]

Is this prize winning ex likely to check mumsnet for you posting?

[dungandbother]

I have an ex like this so you're not alone. Not by a long shot.

He won't take children to activities on Wed eve - his Eve when he collects from school. They want to go but that's irrelevant to him as its HIS time with the children. Oh how precious little time he gets with them whilst stroking their heads

I suggested a change of evening and Tues suits him. He wants to pick them up after the childminder at 6pm.

Who pays for the childminder? I do as I work Tue. He went ballistic when I said he would have to pay if he wants Tues on the current schedule.

Hang on.... I thought it was about quality time with your children????

Clearly not.

Mumsnet will see you through. Do not walk away from the marital home in terms of asset. He will have to sell up to give you some money.

[43percentburnt]

Oh also, if he remarries then dies/or stays single but changes his will it could mean the majority of his assets go to his new wife. (I am aware that his DC could contest this but no guarantees as to how much cash they will get). The only way you can guarAntee leaving them money is by you leaving it to them - (yep care home fees etc etc may mean there is nothing).

Do it for the kids... Surely as a 50/50 good dad he would totally understand this...

[bomfunk]

I do sometimes panic he has access to my online life (banking, mumsnet etc.). I have password changed etc. Sometimes he seems to know stuff e.g about my dp that I'm not sure how.

But I'm also thinking, well, if he reads the thread then what the hell?! It's the truth of the situation, and maybe a reply might resonate with him - I don't believe he is pure evil or anything, he does genuinely think the world of the kids, and isn't feckless when he's with them - he thinks nothing of taking all three anywhere and everywhere and they genuinely love him. He's a fun dad, but he can also be trusted with the heavier parenting (DD had chicken pox the other day, and to be fair he didn't even quibble about having her, and doing a good job of 'nursing' her better.

I think the bottom line is he's very selfish. His family are quite selfish (his sister is on another planet of self-centredness, and his dad is incredibly generous on one hand, but selfish in the extreme on the other). But he achieves selfishness with very very subtly manipulative behaviour. I was in a bit of a mess when we met, coming out the other side of some mad teenage/early 20's partying years and I believe he's got a major 'white knight' complex, I was probably sufficiently pathetic and got swept along with his life and whims and decisions because I wasn't very strong. When I really gained metal strength, I think was probably the beginning of the end.

[KickAssAngel]

Are you sure he isn't getting info from your parents? He could have got info to log into your online stuff before you split, but unless you think he's had access to your computer, and has a key logger on there then it's unlikely he can still log in to things.

More normal would be to chat to your parents in a very nice and friendly way whenever they drop the kids off.

I think you do need to spell it out to your parents that he's trying to deprive your kids of money, and that if they chat and give him info they're helping him to do that. Do your parents want o see you struggle for money and the kids not have nice things (while with you) because they let slip about something that he then uses in the divorce?

[KoalaDownUnder]

'Selfish' is an understatement. Jesus wept! You have three children under six with this man, and he's taking photos of your food shopping?!

Glad you're taking a stand. What a prick!

[RandomMess]

TBH on a Thursday he picks them all up from your house - stuff that you taking them back to his etc. yet again doing his parental work for you.

If you wants you to do Friday mornings then they stay at yours Thursday nights end of.

You need to start playing hardball

[RandomMess]

Check he hasn't installed key logger on your computer or phone spyware etc, I would also keep stuff from friends and family that you think could possibly be passing stuff on - or his he interrogating the DC?