The headfuck of post-separation finances

[bomfunk]

So basically, ex-H and I separated just over a year ago, not yet divorced, I have moved out of family home into rental. 3DC ages 2, 5 and 6. I have always worked PT fri-sun, so since the split we arranged our residency as follows:

Mon am - I collect kids from ex's at 7.45 for school run for the older two.

All at mine until Thursday pm, I collect from school and wait at ex's house until he returns from work at 4.30pm/ish (so Thursday, technically 'his day', but as I'm not working that day I'm happy to have baby during day and see eldest DC briefly after school).

Fri: again, his 'day' but I collect them from his house, do school run, get ready for work (11am-8pm) and drop baby off at daycare on the way, kids stay at afterschool club and ex collects all on Friday pm, where they stay overnight.

Weekends are strange. I have a very close (and large!) family, who have always got together on Saturdays for tea. Saturday's, exH and I 'technically' alternate, but in reality, probably more than 90% of the time I collect kids after work at 5.30pm, we do my family thing, and they then stay over with my DParents, who take them out / swimming or whatever on Sunday and drop DC back to ex on Sunday at 4pm-ish where they stay the night.

Ex has been very keen to establish that every other Saturday are 'technically his' - and that he 'allows' them to stay at my parents (my parents are younger, fit and adore the kids, love having them (practically insist!) on the weekend and have a good relationship with ex, so it works). It also gives ex a weekend night 'off', ensures the kids do something nice on the weekend with their grandparents who they adore. He only time this differs is if my DPs are on holiday, where we adhere to the alternate Saturday nights.

By establishing this 'technical' split, it makes it a 50/50 residence, so he gets to avoid maintenance (financial control is a bit of a 'thing' with him).

Still with me?!

So the thing that I am aibu-ing about, is that exH is pushing for me to pay half of the childcare costs for baby daycare plus kids afterschool club on the Friday. My argument is that it is HIS day, his need for childcare, and that I already go above and beyond, because I have the youngest plus do pickups and drop offs on his days (even though it's great for me as it means that apart from Sunday, I get to see them every day of the week). When I point this out, and that by doing more than my 'fair share' and really help him out because he needs to get to work before the kids leave for school, and that actually it costs me money, petrol, baby group and activity costs, basic food/housing type costs, he comes back with 'what sort of a mother would charge to look after her own kids'. I don't charge! And it benefits me greatly by sneaking in extra time with them, plus I think (hope) it benefits the DC being with a parent. I hate the quibbling, as it makes me feel like I'm arguing against taking care and spending time with my DC, and I do feel he plays on this.

So aibu to refuse to pay half the childcare costs? How can I articulate this without sounding heartless?! Any input greatly received, and please be gentle! First AIBU

Why don't you have Friday yourself, granted you will be funding your own childcare fully but if he's not happy to pay for it someone needs to and it sounds like you can deal with the commitment better than he can. I also wouldn't do his school runs

The Monday morning thing is madness - this alone stop doing it!!!

You also need to start thinking about the future, what happens when your baby starts school? Will you try and work longer hours?

I agree with trying women's aid for advice for SHL and counsellor. Then go with what they say

You're not even with him anymore and he's still abusing you. Write down all the times you have the kids during an average week. The total number of hours in a week is 168. Do you have them for more or less than half of this?

Of it's more, he owes you maintenance.

I know you want to keep it amicable, but all that means is that you're still doing everything he tells you to do for fear of the consequences. What's he sacrificing to keep things amicable?

If I were you, I'd be stepping away from the whole situation until you can regain some perspective.

I think from September would be a good time to put in some new boundaries and review the situation. The Fridays would be a good place to start I think, as this is a day he could easily sort for himself. DC3's nursery opens early and is near the kids school, which has a breakfast club. He could easily do drop offs on this day and still get to work on time.

I can see I am doing way more than 50/50, but he will only concede that the number of nights count. He views this as we are both doing 3 nights each per week, and the Saturdays are 'every other' even though the vast majority of the time they are with me / my parents from 5.30pm Saturday - 4pm Sunday.

I am also going to look to get divorce proceedings underway soon. Initially I was happy to walk away with nothing, but now I'm thinking I'm selling my self very short here. But mostly, I just want a line drawn under it all and to be able to carry on with my life free of control.

You're selling yourself very short.

Park the maintenance for a moment.

You have three children so you took yourself out the workplace three times, reducing your earning potential, your pension investment and this will have an ongoing impact on your life for the longer term future whisky the children are small and possibly forever.

Divorce will compensate you for that with a greater percentage value of the house or a share of his pension.

The forever part is when spousal maintenance kicks in. That's harder to get (ie he pays you maintenance because of the factors above) so that is worth a conversation with a lawyer about.

So unpark the maintenance.

Who is clothing, majority feeding, paying for activities and driving them to said activities? Who will do that going forward?

I'm gonna bet my ass it won't be him.

I'm now reconsidering walking away with nothing too.

You should walk away with as much as possible and certainly everything that you have a right to.

You should walk away with your true legal entitlement.

Has your ex mentioned gold digging or taking him for all he's worth yet? I see he has already pulled 'bad mother' by asking 'what kind of mother would...'.

This man wouldn't give you money to support his own kids whilst you were on maternity leave. I PRomise you that you will find driving lessons, prom clothes, school trips abroad, residentials, university etc etc when they are teens because greedy 'great dad' won't want to. He is such a great dad he left his wife struggling building up debt because he wouldn't buy his kids food... Yep great dad! He is quibbling over a £5 kids party present whilst you give him free childcare.

Get a SHL (yep it will cost you but at the moment you are walking away with nothing, so a lawyers cost makes sense to get anything) and take your legal entitlement - don't walk away with nothing - get your legal entitlement for your kids.

Fund not find

ps I know what it's like when you can no longer see the wood from the trees due to an abusive arse of an ex. I really empathise with your situation.

You really need a SHL, take their professional advice on everything and act upon it. Greedy dad will say 'let's not involve solicitors it will cost us thousands' translated into real life this means 'don't get a solicitor as you will realise you are being fleeced and it will cost me thousands'.

He got his wife and 3 young kids to move out of the stability of their family home into rented... No doubt on a six month tenancy agreement with all the security that provides.

43 you are so bang on with so much of what you've said. Yes, we've had lengthy discussions about involving lawyers and he is very much of the stance of 'if we go down the legal route you'll be taking away from the kids because the cost of solicitors etc will be sunk money'. But to be honest, I have nothing to lose, I have nothing. He's simply trying to ensure that he gets to keep all the chips and I can see that he gives not two shiny shites about anything else.

I chose to leave the house, his parents live next door, and it's an old farmhouse that needs a tremendous amount of work (a LOT of which my dad has already done free of charge as he is a builder). A huge factor in leaving was that we never got any further forward with the building works and sorting it out. In the end I just wanted out.

Any ideas how could I go about getting a fair divorce / lawyer? I literally am on the bare bones of my arse - I have no way of affording it at the moment.

If there is any equity in the marriage you will not be allowed to divorce until a judge can see you are getting a fair deal. The fair deal is there to protect your children. So you won't have a choice about going to mediation or getting a lawyer involved in the long term.

Do a rough calculation - equity in the house, pensions, cars etc - at least half of that is yours. is it really fair that he keeps it? He's a financial abuser and you've left him to stop that. So stop it! Make sure you get a fair deal.

You need recommendations and someone who has experience of financial abuse.

how much equity in the house?

I think the solicitor can be paid from marital assets.

Please stop caring for the DC on his days - that is your bargaining chip - you look after them you have them overnight - tough shit to him and his maintenance avoidance.

Keep a record of all the overnights you do have them to prove that along with day time care etc. he doesn't actually do 50% care at all.

You are totally enabling him to be a dick.

You shouldn't be doing the Friday and Monday school run for him. He needs to use breakfast club (at his cost), change his working hours so he starts later or pay you (through maintenance) to have the kids Thursday and Sunday night

He's having a laugh trying to ask for childcare money. You are " paying" for childcare on your days through shorter working hours. Would he go halves if your working hours meant that the children were in paid childcare? I bet not.

My DP has pointed out what's going to happen when there are new partners on the scene? This arrangement is not a workable long term one.

Thanks again for all the replies - it's really helping to clarify things in my head. My next step is definitely now to seek legal advice. The summer holiday will be a useful time to put in some new boundaries since it will be a good time to break the pattern, and hopefully we can start again in September with some new arrangements.

There kind of are new partners on the scene at the moment. From my end it's fairly straightforward as he is very laid back, and we've been in no hurry with regards to him being involved with the DC. It's suited me to be able to enjoy my 'free' time enjoying this new (lovely!) relationship. Neither of us are averse to them meeting in the future, he's met DC3 a couple of times, but we will more than likely stay living apart for the foreseeable future (he has some health problems, and we both like our own space!). I've been keen to let the dust totally settle for the kids - we're serious, but ultimately the kids come first, and he's happy to follow my lead there.

Ex-H new partner is a little more volatile, I think coming from a nasty divorce herself and so is a bit more 'fight' which I do think has rubbed off on ex-H. His general attitude has definitely been more confrontational recently. It's a shame, because he was seeing a woman who seemed very switched on and wizened, and was actually fantastic at getting him to see when he was behaving unreasonably. Things were far more amicable, but have definitely taken a turn for the worse.

It's a bone of contention as well in that we both agreed that meeting new partners would be something we both would take our time with, with him VERY insistent that we should be with new partners for at least a year, which I was fully on board with. Of course, as you can imagine that rule suddenly doesn't apply to him (because it doesn't suit him) and he has introduced two new women in the space of 5 months (argh!). Obviously there's nothing I can do about this, but I have made it clear that I'm not very happy about it, and that he seems to be thinking only of himself.

So going forward, legal advice, stop being such a pushover, and implement new boundaries for when the kids go back to school! I am listening, I know I'm coming across as sounding like a right doormat, but he's really quite clever / confusing in arguments and it's very difficult to get my point across. I think I'm realising that I'll never achieve this by myself, I need some legal clout!

Have text this. Does it sound reasonable?:

On reflection - I will not argue with you re: childcare costs any more. I already do far more than the so called 50/50, and actually you are being a cheeky fucker. We will need to have a conversation about how things will proceed from September. We also need to push forward the divorce now. I would like this drawn a line under and things set out in a less informal way, since you seem so keen to take a mile. Mediation I think would be a sensible start.

Sounds fine.
It probably will get a lot more 'cool' than it has been.

Keep smiling and don't let him rattle you.

A good text to have sent.

Rather curious that he thinks that you paying out for the running around you do outside of your contact time is fine, because 'what sort of a mother would charge to have her own children' but fails to see that by asking you to share in his costs, he's being a father who is charging you for having his own children. Cheeky fucker sounds too used to getting his own way at your expense.

Don't think of any money from the divorce as 'you' taking things - think of it as providing stability and support for your children. If he's taking the piss this much while you're onside, I should imagine that the moment the divorce is signed he'll suddenly want you doing a shit load more for the kids, without him contributing a penny. It won't take long before you're providing most of the money/time/clothes/food etc for them, and he still isn't paying maintenance as 'it's 50:50, so that's fair'.

Overnights are what are used for working out residency, but make sure that you count nights with your parents as YOUR nights. Start keeping a diary, and count up how many nights he actually has the kids. Also - if it's his day/night then childcare is his responsibility. Either he pays for childcare OR he pays you a reasonable amount for doing his job for him. Keep a diary of how often you bail him out, and how much that should be costing him. I suspect he's having the kids at his house so that he can claim 50/50 but then gets you to do the work for free. It's a great way to wriggle out of paying maintenance, which would mean you could give the kids a nicer home and more fun things if he actually did that.

Bottom line - either he DOES 50/50, or he PAYS to have someone else take on that responsibility for him.

What kind of a shit father treats the children's mother like crap, AND attempts to keep money for himself instead of helping out his kids?

Funnily enough sn0t, I put it to him exactly like that on Friday when he was having a paddy about the childcare costs. In one breath he is saying 'How dare you expect money for our children to be cared for!' and in the next 'I need money from you for our children to be cared for'

Oh the irony!!

Anyway, no reply to the text, but I expect, as a pp said, that things will be a lot cooler between us now.

I'm so glad I started this tread though, I do feel bolstered now. He keeps hassling me to give him a breakdown of my income (what I earn / benefits etc). I don't need to give him this information do I? I ran into him in the supermarket a few weeks ago and he took a photo of my shopping he said to prove I could afford food

When it comes to the financial settlement of the divorce I think you BOTH will need to give financial disclosure but yes in the meantime you don't have to tell him anything!!

He sounds completely tight and desperate to ensure that he doesn't have to pay either spousal maintenance or anything towards the DC. I think he is running scared in case you realise that you realise that indeed you AND the DC are entitled to something to have a decent life. For example he may have to buy you out of the marital home so you can buy something and so on.

He will see your financial breakdown during the divorce when you see his. I think you should rethink walking away from the house, and no matter how much he insists that 3-4 overnights equals 50/50 care it won't actually make it true. I think you've been so accommodating that he's decided he can get more concessions from you.