AIBU to report db and his dw to social services

[thislittlepiggytoldaporky]

Im not sure where to post this so posted it here for a quick response. I have posted before but have changed my username as i don't want to out myself. Anyway my me and my db went no contact a few years ago because of deep rifts in the family. After a few years him and his dw went through a rough patch and he came back to us his family and we helped him, gave him money etc. We got to see our dn which was great. However him and his dw are now back together and we went to visit them today for the first time. Their house is dirty and cluttered (i am not against a bit of clutter and mess believe me as my own house is like this constantly with kids!) and their dc always seem to wear the same clothes every single time we see them. They didn't seem to much food in the cupboards and when i went upstairs to use the toilet i noticed that both dc are sleeping on mattresses on the floor with no toys in their rooms and no sheets. I also know that they both smoke cannibis and could smell it in their house with the children there, (i don't know if they had been smoking it in front of the children but could smell it. His dw suffers from depression and i think at times has hit the oldest child (my db told me this when they split up) and i know his dw can be paranoid and depressed and hide away for days at a time. i just don't know what to do, does this amount to abuse? I'm scared if i report it might push his dw over the edge need some advice

No toys in the bedroom is fine if there are tots downstairs. No sheets is a bigger issue. Inhaling weed is dangerous. If you want to remain anonymous, go through NSPCC. Tell them you prefer not to be made known to parents. NSPCC will contact SS who will triage and probably do an assessment given safeguarding concerns. Mention 'neglect'; 'safeguarding - re cannabis and history.

What is the 'this' that her house is constantly like then?

Normal levels of mess. Unlike her brother's home, apparently.

Hi sorry maybe I should have been more clear. Since me and db have been talking again I went to his house for the first time. Before this him and the db had come to my house or we had met up outside of home. I have given the children toys before and bought them things they might like and new clothes. But I can't start buying beds, furniture, clothes, toys etc and when I tried to mention it to db he got extremely defensive. They have nice things, and seem to spend money on themselves, it's the Dc who are missing out. And when I meant their house was dirty, I mean my house constantly has toys on the floor has cake crumbs etc but the washing is done, it's hoovered floors mopped etc every day. It's just normal every day mess that gets cleaned with the dc are in bed. with their house I'm talking about dirty walls, floors and just general clutter everywhere, no tv or toys.

Sorry me and my db not him! and by them having nice things I mean my db and his wife

if someone had turned up at my place today they'd have walked into a bombsite, my son chooses to sleep on the bare mattress as he has sensory issues and dislikes bedding. there are not many toys in my kids rooms really as they don't really play with them much.
i'd offer help before i went to SS.

Someone made a good point about saying you have only been there once, had you been there a handful of times and the place was the same then fine, youve been there once, tough call.

No beds, no bedding and no toys is a massive red flag. Add in dirty house, drug use, hitting of children and limited food then yes, phone.

I had ss involvement due to DV and the social worker came round to my home and spoke to me.

She asked me if my kids did any activities (yes they did) and had spoken to the dc school to check on a) attendance levels and b) behaviour/acheivement.

She looked round my home (clean and tidy) and checked the dc room (bunk beds, full of toys and kids stuff, clean and tidy) and said that there was absolutely nothing to worry about and left.

So yes, bedding, toys, kids having a social life, clean and tidy home, food in the house. All these things are important and it seems to me that your dbs children are severely neglected.

The poster above says her child prefer to sleep on the mattress on the floor with no bedding because of sensory issues but that's rare and quite different to the things you are saying. Please do report them to ss so they can intervene and improve the childrens lives.

No you couldn't buy them beds (although second hand beds are cheap enough - but bedding etc you could-most people could find old spares in their homes ........ Frankly with you so recently visiting your brother is going to guess it was you - and if it turns out the bedding was in the wash and the SIL was ill with depression and you arrived on a bad day it could bite you on the bum badly.
(Id also take with a pinch of salt a just seperated partner's tales of the other partner abusing the kids without any other proof - People say all sorts of stuff when they've just split up. If it was true why would he get back with her ?)

I'm not saying you are wrong ....just pointing out things may not be as you assume -and the fact that reporting them is likely to cause a rift - it may be better to be a bit more sure of the full facts first.

Please,Please,Please never ever tell someone that your contacting SS know matter how well you know or think you know the adults involved!

This is one of the easiest ways for any abuse the children have suffered to go through the roof,sometimes it's that alone which is bad enough other times it's the abuse gets ramped up and the adults disappear with the children!

I used to work in schools and with SS

HUH! So how come you don't appear to be aware that in most circumstamces it is considered to be good practise to discuss referals with care givers when you refer. Unless to do so would place the child at risk.

Placing a child at risk is not a catch all you can automatically apply to every single referal situation the majority of situations will not fall into that risk.

op I would report (and I rarely say that) BUT I would be clear about what I was reporting.

Do you mean no toys in the bedroom or none at all in the whole house.
Do you mean no food in the house or do you mean food but not the sort you would bother with and only a days worth.

You initial description of the state of the house and your follow up are quite a bit different, I was initially thinking filthy of the type seen in crime scene photos due to your description of your own house but then you followed it with detail of your own cleaning ritual and a bit more detail about theirs, by cluttered do you mean hard to move about the house or find space to sit or play or do you mean a fair bit messier than yours, do you mean mouldy food left lying around or do you mean someone can't be bothered to do the dishes daily.

Do the children obviously smell bad, did their bedroom smell of urine and did the mattress look like it had never had a sheet on or like it may have done but could be in the wash.

If you are as clear as you can be it will be easier get a much clearer picture because otherwise your dealing with a whole bunch of subjective stuff.

Ive lost count of the amount of homes reported as being crack den filthy only to find they are a mop every 3 days household and it's differing standards. If you are clear it makes it less likely that something important will get missed

OP, if you don't feel that you can context SS, then visit again, soon, to judge the situation, again.

Are the children in school/Nursery? Neglect and this is neglect, is often worse, over the school holidays.

OP you seem to have sufficient cause to believe the children are at risk. Contact SS asap and leave it to them to assess. The situation. They will offer support to the parents if needed after discussion with the other professionals involved such as education, health visitor, GP.

""HUH! So how come you don't appear to be aware that in most circumstamces it is considered to be good practise to discuss referals with care givers when you refer. Unless to do so would place the child at risk.""

If the professionals that should discuss the referral, not a lay person reporting it. If abuse or neglect is suspected, it shouldn't be discussed with those responsible.

It's fine, to discuss it, once the initial investigation has been done.

Report. You have offered assistance that has been turned down.

Big flag for me is the adults having nice things but the kids not.

SS are like MNHQ - they prefer a report so they can assess the situation rather than a potentially harm go unchecked

I know birds. I only picked up on that post because so many staff in places that have a responsibility to refer issues actually truely believe what that poster posted and reading how she phrased it it sounded like she was stating that was the case for those professionals.

It's a huge bug of mine.

But I would disagree on the neglect aspect. Sometimes it can be immensely beneficial to the support process to have had an approach made with the full knowledge of the parent by a caring friend or even an approach together (it used to happen a lot) because those ones usually come with very willing to engage with parents who are usually a bit tearful begging for help, they just needed someone who cared to help them see that something was going badly wrong.with those people an unexpected referal can lead to a huge breakdown in supportive relationships that can make the difference between coping and improving and not but adding in isolation to the mix

Not really relevant to this op as the relative the op is talking about sound a tad highly strung and the op does not have that sort of relationship with them. But you never know someone else who may benefit from knowing may be reading.

If you are asking yourself do I need to report this to social services, then IME the answer is always yes. Where I am you would be obliged to report this to SS. Ask yourself this, would it be in the children's interests to get some help?

Needs read what the OP said and then read what I said!

The OP has already said on here that she believes that the children involved have been hurt by they're Mother and she's also mentioned that the Mother has MH problems.

Telling a parent that may be suffering with paranoia that your getting SS involved is a fucking stupid idea!

I've seen that done in the past and the outcome for the children that were involved was bloody savage treatment by they're parents all because one idiot who thought they knew better than every one else involved with that family opened they're bloody mouths.

They weren't then the one's who had to try and pick up the pieces!

Normally I'd say no don't but I'm this instance it's clear the parents need support and so do the children please call them with your concerns

oh

She does not know of the existence of any prior violence or physical chastisement at all. Her brother said it during a split and she suspects it based on what her brother said there is a big difference.

it also looks like the op has knowledge that the SIL has depression but that any paranoia is the op's opinion rather than an actually DX'd condition.

It's a bit of a stretch to go from what the op actually said to the kids are at risk of bloody savage treatment from a violent paranoid abuser.

What do you think is likely to happen once the referal is recieved?

Most of the time the parents will recieve a phone call saying they are coming in the next few days and usually they will say exactly why because that is considered to be best practise in most cases the cases where it is not are ones where there is a known legit reason such as prior history indicating risk of further harm promoted by the knowledge, risk indicated by HCP's working with the parent/carer, known risk of abduction and risk of evidence destruction that sort of thing.