To think if you cannot add one half to one quarter you really should not be in teaching

[mrgrouper]

I am starting teacher training in September and so have joined some teacher training Facebook groups. We all have to pass professional skills tests in literacy and numeracy. The tests are pretty easy but there is a mental arithmetic test that a lot of trainees are panicking on. A woman has posted that she is doing the mock test and it claims one half plus one quarter is three quarters and she has no idea how the examiners had worked this out. She is not training to be a maths teacher but surely all teachers should know basic maths. I knew this stuff aged 7.

What Miaow said.

If you know what you're doing with maths and then have the misfortune to sit in a lesson where the poor teacher is really not sure of themselves and there's a number of children saying 'I don't get it' or the bright kids are asking questions above the level of the teacher's ability, then you don't think 'ah fab, this teacher knows how difficult it can feel and everything will be fine'.

It's like watching a bad comedian's jokes die on stage. Everyone feels bad, the audience and the comedian. The teacher feels bad, the children don't learn and the ones who realise the teacher doesn't understand it are frustrated.

I give up call

As a student I lived in a flat share with two trainee primary school teachers and they were quite gobsmackingly uneducated. I couldn't understand how they'd ever got on their course.

Teachers can have disabilities and measures put in place to cater for these, but I consider 1/2 + 1/4 to be really basic - it doesn't really need working out (like times tables).

I worry about the rise of unqualified teachers. Whilst some will be brilliant, have great classroom skills etc., I want the person teaching my child to have, frankly, more than a basic grasp of most things.

Interestingly, I did a test QTS test a few years ago (just to see), and thought it was relatively challenging without revision. It was also mostly about data handling - reading spreadsheets etc.- which is far too telling about what teachers are supposed to be prioritising now.

You can get qualified teachers who don't have a basic grasp and unqualified ones who do. A PGCE (or equivalent) is not the way to determine this.

A PGCE (or equivalent) is not the way to determine this

You need a GCSE Grade C in Maths and English to get on the course. You'd have hoped that that qualification shows you have the basics in Maths and English.

A PGCE (or equivalent) is not the way to determine this. I found it was a very good way to weed out people who were not cut out for teaching.

But here is someone practising tests and finding they can't do something, asking for help and bring massively judged as having a "low IQ" and being "too thick to be a teacher

If the something they can't do is "maths for 6 year olds", then they aren't able to be a teacher. Or shouldn't be. If you need to revise to get the level of infant classes, then yes, you will be judged. On what planet do you not?

I think that's a high expectation and would eliminate a lot of good teachers

Really? A-level equivalent pass at maths is a basic requirement where I am. And where I went to school (dif country). I think its the minimum in most European countries.

It does explain the relatively low numeracy scores in the UK. Presumably it's the same for English etc too? But they must have a degree in something, presumably, to be a teacher?

If the something they can't do is "maths for 6 year olds", then they aren't able to be a teacher. Or shouldn't be.

She has to have a grade C GCSE maths to get on the course.

She has to have a grade C GCSE maths to get on the course

How on earth did she manage that if she can't answer a question my 6 year old can? And not only couldn't answer it, but even when given the answer, couldn't understand why that would be the answer?

The type of maths we do at 16 is equivalent to the type of compulsory maths others do 16-18. Our education (while certainly not perfect) is different as we specialise younger and only do 3 subjects to 18 usually.

How on earth did she manage that if she can't answer a question my 6 year old can?

People forget things they haven't used in a while. Just look at the homework questions that get posted on here for help.

From the op A woman has posted that she is doing the mock test and it claims one half plus one quarter is three quarters and she has no idea how the examiners had worked this out.. That reads to me as if she's asking generally how to add fractions with different denominators. The example of adding a half and a quarter you can do without thinking about. If it was something trickier like 1/3 + 1/4 you need to know the method, not just the answer.

The type of maths we do at 16 is equivalent to the type of compulsory maths others do 16-18

Ah ha ha! Sure! What basis do you have to say that? Do you know what the whole of Europe does at 16-18?

You don't "forget" how to add a half and a quarter any more than you forget that 10 comes after 9 or 5 plus 5 is ten.

You don't "forget" how to add a half and a quarter any more than you forget that 10 comes after 9 or 5 plus 5 is ten.

But you could easily forget how to add other fractions. That could be what the poster means by "I don't know how they worked this out".

A very generous interpretation. I'm guessing not though.

I often ask my students who give me answers "how did you work it out?" to check they actually understand what they're doing.

Again, if she has a GCSE she can't be totally useless as some people seem determined to believe.

If you do the sum visually - adding imaginary pieces of cake - it's easy.

What's not easy is trying to do the sum if you've forgotten the rules. So 1/2 plus 1/4 could be 2/6 if you think it's about adding the top numbers together and adding the bottom numbers together.

I think it's legit to have forgotten a) that you have to convert 1/2 into 2/4 so the bottom numbers of the same and b) that you only add the top line not the bottom line.

(I have semi-forgotten about numerators and denominators.)

I think the real problems would arise if once it had been (re)explained and opportunities to apply the knowledge hadn't been given, the person concerned still didn't get it.

Understanding how to work out fractions is basic, even if you need reminding.

Fractions is the one thing parents always say to me is the thing they could never do, and make it ok for students to not understand.

It seems to be a bit of a blockage for loads of people.

Most students have blocks of certain subjects - I teach bright Yr 9's who some of need reminding of some of the basics - its normal.

I know I definitely can't remember all of the information I learnt at school as I don't use it - she has basically asked for help and is being ridiculed. As I said before obviously the OP has offered to help her out. The kind thing to do.

Purple daisies would you feel the same if she had an incredibly limited vocabulary? Or didn't know what a noun and a verb were?

And if you struggle with cakes, imagine pints of beer.

Can we please stop pretending this is some difficult knowledge that you might forget since school, like when was the magna carter signed or who was the 25th Prime Minister?
A would be teacher of maths to children can't add a half a cake to a quarter of a cake. She has no business in a classroom, unless its to take remedial maths classes herself.

Yep. It's an absolute basic for living and functioning as an adult I'd say. One up from being able to get yourself dressed and out.

As a pp said, if you can't work that one out then you can't actually tell the time.