Angry with nursery for putting babies in with older kids at the end of the day

[Nuni]

Because some of the staff go home early, they don't have enough staff to keep the baby room open the last couple of hours before nursery closes.

I deliberately chose a nursery with a room for Under 2s, I'm paying the same price for the hours she's mixed in with older kids. She's still so small and vulnerable, I don't like her being in with 4-5 year olds

Why didn't they tell me this before?

Or do all nurseries do this?

Keyworker is fantastic but I feel really let down by the way the nursery is run... surely if they advertise a baby room it should stay open until closing time? I wanted a safe, baby-friendly area, where she feels secure, not being lumped in with older kids at the end of the day, in a room set up for a different age group, just so they can avoid paying more staff

You are paying the extra money for the adult/child ratios, not for your PFB to be in a room of babies.

As long as the correct ratios are maintained, you don't have a leg to stand on in your complaint.

You do know that most babies have older siblings, right? In most families, babies are quite often in rooms with children as old as 5 and even 6!

It's really common, but I'm not keen. A baby at an 8-6 nursery should be doing things suitable for them in a room made for them. If it's good for them to visit the older children it should be done for that reason, not out of convenience.

The problem is working hours:
Imagine 12 babies in a baby room, 8-6. That means 4 staff. 2 in at 8, another at 8:30 as it'll be mostly full, another at 9. That will mean that 2 need to go home(if possible) at 5, one at 5:30, leaving one on their own until 6, so they collect together in one room. In the old days...(90s) nurseries used to employ more part time staff to work 2 or 3 hours at the ends of the day. They don't seem to any more. The new thing is staff working 8-6 every day with a half day some time. Not for me.

Most nurseries do this, as pointed out.

Another thing to note is the safeguarding guidelines around staff being alone with children. It's likely they come together at the end of the day when staff start to leave and there's only 1 person left in a room. It was common practice when I was a nursery nurse for practitioners to join up so they are with someone at all times, usually in a shared space like the garden.

You also pay more for the staff:child ratio. Regardless of how much space a baby shares, or not shares, with a 5 year old, you will pay more for ratio purposes.

I think it's pretty standard. Our nursery does it in the morning rather than evening, so all the kids go into the big room for breakfast then split off into their own rooms around 9am. The ratios are still correct and the babies are usually being held by someone, they're not just plonked down to be trod on by galumphing 4-year-olds!

My DD is 20 months and about to move up a room, and I think having mixed with the older children will help her with that. She already stops off at their room on the way home for hugs!

YANBU. Lots of people saying it is standard, doesn't make it right. You have been told one thing, are paying for one thing, yet experiencing another.

And don't you just love it when people patronisingly ask if it is your first child?! Because once you have a second, who gives a shit about what happens to them?!

My nursery does this once most of the children have been picked up from 5ish and especially in school holidays as have a lot of term time only children on funded parents. Never bothered me and my daughter
Likes seeing the babies (she is 2 and a half).

My dd used to spend 8am to 9am with the babies as there weren't many big ones. It was fab imo as I then had twins and she was fine around little ones and little ones loved watching the older ones. Great developmentally for both ages and something they can do when numbers are lower at the start and end of the day. If the older ones are beating up your baby then you can be angry but otherwise, it's a rather odd thing to be angry about.

Our nursery does this. My daughter is 21 months and adores the older children. It's made a huge difference to her Development and play too.

I have four children and I would be annoyed by this. As for the staff going home at the end of the shift. Then why provide a service if u can't fully see it through. U Wud go to soft play centre play for an an and the other rhr they had to watch the other kids play if u pay for something. You expect to receive that service. If not then why are they saying they can provide it. If there going into the older kids rooms then what if the baby is of crawling age picking up buts of play doh and small bits what if one of the stage children is a bit rough. No way I'd be well pissed

I've never known a nursery where this didn't happen, tbh.

Our nursery does this, and I think it works really well. DD loves 'helping' with the babies and playing with the bigger kids, and I would rather she wasn't the last one in the room waiting for me when everyone else has been collected. Much better to have the last couple there together, rather than three rooms open with one child playing alone in each.

Agree with everyone else - it's standard, and means you are all saving a bit of money, rather than having to have (and pay) two members of staff to be in each room when there might only be one child left in each room.

Not sure what you think is going to happen to them either ?
One of many reasons I chose a CM over a Nursery is the fact it's a much better environment for mixing with older dc. I think there's something a bit odd about only being surrounded by other babies all day.

This happens sometimes with our nursery but not every day. I rather like it as it means the one year old gets to play with her older brother. She is often the last baby to be collected and it's rather nice seeing the older kids trying to entertain her. The older ones always are so nice to her and love playing with her.

What do you think. The 4 & 5 year olds are going to do to her. They probably mother the babies. They're not monsters you know
If staff have finished their shift. Theyve finished their shift.

Op try and look at this differently. At a childminders you get this mix if ages anyway...abd that is why I chose a childminder ! There is nothing natural about babies just being with babies. How boring for them !

Also. These big kids are still little themselves. The babies will love it and It completely natural for children to be in mixed age groups.

My son's nursery doesn't mix the non walking babies in with the older children usually. However, on clear days the staff usually take all of the other children to mix in the garden together at the end of the day. My DS always seems to be enjoying himself much more with the other children than when he's the only one left in the room at the end of the day.

It's standard.
When your pfb is older and you potentially have a younger child/baby, are you intending to keep them in separate rooms?
It's a good thing for babies to watch older children, imo, they find it fascinating.
I think "lumped in with older kids" is a bit hysterical tbh. It makes it sound like dd has been dumped in a room with a group of random teenagers and left to get on with it The reality is that she's moved into a different room at the end of the day where there are older babies waiting to be collected.
The "older kids" are supervised at all times, as is your dd, Your baby is not being abandoned, she just has to spend a small proportion of her day in a different room, with some slightly older babies/toddlers. What exactly do you think will happen to her? Surely part of the nursery experience is to get babies and toddlers used to other children. Babies love watching older children, I'm really struggling to see what your problem is

Going against the grain this doesn't happen at nurseries around me. DS1 was in an 8-6 setting and they stayed in the appropriate rooms. There was the odd morning they mixed in for breakfast as there weren't enough staff and it used to annoy me as he ever settled well so being in a different room with different staff upset him more and there weren't enough people to help him. We were paying a lot for him to be there so I would expect them to have worked out their staffing levels.

When DS2 was in the baby room, DS1 (2.5 - 3.5) would sometimes spend half an hour during the day in there 'visiting' him. As I assume other older siblings sometimes did. Surely surely that can only be a good thing?

Shock horror DS2 sometimes had a nap in a pram in an older room, as he'd settle well by watching the other kids then dropping off.

If they are open & honest about what goes on, I'm sure it's fine.

You should be thankful for it, mixed age groups are good for children, helps their development. DD's nursery has mixed age groups all the time and the little ones learn so much from the older ones and the older ones learn empathy and responsibility from looking after the little ones. I love dropping DD (5yrs) off and seeing a little toddler girl who barely talks run over to play with her, and DD take her nicely by the hang and plays with her.

My nursery does not do this.

On rare occaisions at the beginning and end of the day they bunch the two baby rooms together, the two toddler rooms together and the two preschool rooms together but because they are so similar in age and its generally because there are less children because of holidays its fine.

YANBU - I would be annoyed wih this but to be fair what can you do other than move your child elsewhere?

In the nursery I work, we do it. The toddlers (1-2 yos) and babies (under 1 yr old) mix throughout the day anyway but it makes sense to merge olders with youngers at the end of the day. It's not neccesarily for staffing reasons - ratios must remain the same anyway so if you have 6 toddlers, 3 babies and 10 3+ year olds you have 6 staff on the books, and that would be the same wherever the location. But it makes a lot more sense to have children all in one place when running that small a group than running 2 locations.

It helps the children anyway. The elders learn to be careful and to 'look after' the youngers and the youngers development improves. As pp's have said, babies are interested in what the older lot are doing. Quite a few of the group I work with (2-5 year olds) really enjoy going to the younger kids side and playing with the littlies - playing with the babies, helping toddlers do tasks, generally making friends that are different to themselves - a good thing for future life. Older children generally love the responsibility and trust they feel we've placed in them by letting them play with the younger children, and react positively to that - I've known children who are usually short tempered and boistorous to really shine and be gentle when around younger children and feeling they're the oldest so have to be grown up and look after the younger ones.

Your baby will be perfectly safe OP. The ratios must remain in line with regulations, and in our setting staff definitely watch the children playing, especially when it's the babies/young toddlers and the older children, and we remind the olders to be gentle with the littlies. If any older children who we know t be a bit boisterous start playing with the little ones, we stand near them and monitor them and intervene at the first sign of trouble. We watch the babies for picking up and eating playdough etc - and in any case we make it from scratch so nothing in it that would hurt them - and besides, trhere shouldn't be anything on the floor that could harm a baby, even in the toddler room. Because while 5yos might be fine with small lego peices, just turned 2 year olds who are also in preschool room, could be just as risk of swallowing them - there shouldn't be anything of danger in any room so your baby won't be in danger being in that room.

I agree it's important to be flexible to let staff go home on time. Not least because the directors/managers won't be keen to pay for the extra 15/20 minutes they've had to stay on. That's besides the fact that nursery workers work very hard and why make their lives more diffeicult than it has to be.

I have worked in 4 nurseries and they all did it at the end of the day. Usually only for an hour or less though.