Who is BU, re end of tenancy check out

[Zhabr]

Hello everyone, please give your opinions on the following situation.
We are moving out of the rental property on 18/07, our normal pay day is 19 of each month. The agreement was that the checkout will be on 20/07. The agency wants us to pay £65.00 for that additional day. We agreed and said that we would like the checkout at 4pm at the earliest as we both work and just physically cannot be there before that time of the day. The agency rejected that and said that it will be at 2pm and that's final. Then we suggested to do the check out in the late afternoon on 19/07 and then we will not pay the additional fee of £65.00. They rejected that as well. Then we said we will try to make 2pm but only pay £30.00, as it is quite early checkout and why we should pay for the whole day. They rejected this again. After the emailing them back and forth my DH said that we will vacate the premises at 23.59 on 20/07 and will send the keys by recorded delivery. Checkout will be at any other day after that. Waiting for the reply on this one now... Just wonder where we standing in this situation, really...

We have already agreed to pay for an extra day and the cheque fee. My problem is they will not budge on the more convenient time or move it to the different day ( I can be there first thing in the morning on 21/07, for example or 19/07 afternoon is fine, so I will not pay for the additional day in this cost). I think they are trying to charge us with every penny possible.
OurBlanche, same situation here-if I can't be there for 2pm then I can't be there for on 2pm. I am paying for that day, does it mean they cannot access the property without me allowing so?
Living, that's what DH suggested-to send the keys off to the agency by the recorded delivery at the end of the rental day.

Thanks for the advice, BillSykesDog.

Our inventory clerk was amazing. She said all the curtains needed professional cleaning - the flat had no curtains. She said the carpets needed professional cleaning - the flat had wooden floors throughout. She argued the fridge was broken - we'd switched it off as requested by the landlord. She also suggested he charge £30 for a new bathroom bin (because she couldn't work out how to operate it - it was a normal pedal bin FFS!).

And that was with us there! 🙄

If you are moving out on 18th then if you hand back the keys/leave them in the property, as your contract ends on 19th, there is no additional day. You have no need for the additional day, they do because they can't provide you with a check out appointment on the day your contract ends.

In short, their problem.

Your aim is to return the property to the level in which you received it, deducting fair wear and tear over the period of time you lived there.

If you lived there 6m, it ought to be identical to how you received it. If you lived there 6 years say, it's another story and actually, given that rental properties ought to be decorated every 7 years give or take, and the value of carpets etc would be pretty much depreciated in around 10 years, to be flippant, so as long as the house is still standing and there are no holes in the wall, you are probably safe to assume that you are going to get the vast majority of your deposit back.

Your deposit is YOUR money. If the LL wants any of it, they have to prove they have a right to it.

Your inventory will have stated condition at the time of your tenancy start. This is the level to which you are working to. The inventory provides the benchmark to which you work. It is a documentary snapshot and needs to provide detailed info on what condition the property was in when you got it. If it does not, then the adjudicator can not support any claim the LL makes.

You are not expected to BETTER the property, and any claim the LL has needs to be shown as something they would lose financially as they would have to put right to re-let. I had a LL trying to claim money for damage when they had sold the property. the decision was made to reject their claim as the LL had not lost anything in real terms as they had sold the property as it was.

Was the house professionally cleaned for you to move into? If so, you will need to have it cleaned to that same level.

The LL intention to fully refurbish is potentially irrelevant, given that they can change their minds, so to protect yourself and minimise additional charges, i would strongly recommend the following:

IF THE INVENTORY STATED IT HAD BEEN PROFESSIONALLY CLEANED SPECIFICALLY FOR YOUR TENANCY have the house cleaned professionally, including carpets. If the property was not cleaned professionally, and the inventory states this, or there are lots of comments like Surface dust or cleaned to a domestic standard, then this is the standard to which you can be held. No higher.

If you do need to have the property cleaned, one idea is to use the cleaning company the agent works with regularly. That way if there are any cleaning issues, it will be the responsibility of the cleaning company to put right as they know the standard to which they should be working. the Agent will also not be able to dispute the professional status and will be happy with the receipts provided. This will satisfy the adjudicators that the property is returned in the same state from a cleanliness point of view.

When you have left the property make sure you take photos of everything, check the tops of door frames, skirting boards, doors etc for dust. Make sure the oven is cleaned, the hob and extractor.

Make sure that if there are any stains or marks that you photograph these with something in situ so you can provide perspective and a scale.

Then leave, notify them in writing that you have left the property, the keys are there (or return them to their offices) and that you are no longer able to access it and won't be liable for the additional day.

As a former clerk, I lost count of the times where the agent was clearly showing the property to potential tenants before the previous tenant had had their check out and therefore i was unable to ascertain who had left dried grass on the carpets etc. If the tenant has images taken when they leave, they can protect themselves from anything happening after they leave.

If there is no inventory prepared specifically for you, or no inventory at all, then no deductions can be made as original condition of the property can't be established.

Why are you paying anything additional?

Finding a convenient time is always a pain but it's not usual to have to pay - pay your usual rent and no more. Then everyone works together to find the closest date and time everyone can attend, and you meet back up for that - there's no additional rent due for this, you're not living there, just visiting to complete the (seperately charged) check out process.

I think they're taking advantage because you agreed to pay and that's so unusual that it almost highlights you as being new to the process. Or a pushover! They sound awful.

does it mean they cannot access the property without me allowing so? Well, you could, but if and only if the clerk is a third party, you would only be making things difficult for yourselves... vacant check outs are quite normal - I prefer them as I don't get either LL or tenant moaning about the littlest of bitses and bobses. I can just do the job, ingoing inventory in one hand, camera in the other!

Oh, and everything Hissy said too

SouperSal I my have done some Check Ins on her work

Hi, thanks all for your replies. Agreed at 3pm. We have been in the property for 7 years. During this time, only hall and the landing have been given the fresh lick of paint. I've painted the kitchen and the bedrooms myself in the universally hated Magnolia.
Hissy, thanks for your long reply. The property was not professionally cleanedcwhen we miss veld in and yes, there are comments like "dust residue and debris on the carpets, stains on the walls, garden overgrown, curtains not freshly clean etc." I have already got a email, probably standard, about that everything should be professionally cleaned, all the curtains dry cleaned, garden weeded and so on. That's why I want to be present with my copy of the inventory.

Gosh, it should read "when we moved in", not miss veld

OurBlanche I understand your point, but as a tenant I always wanted to be there, and I am glad I did! One time, the person doing the inventory was about to write down that they were cigarette burns on the wooden floor, and I had to insist there wasn't (noone smoked there), and bring a brighter light so she could see it was wood nodes.

If they have made you pay for an extra day is say that close of business (5pm) at the very earliest.
Our Estate Agents were like this. In the end I TOLD them check out could be between 4pm and 6pm on the final day of the tenancy- not several days beforehand.

And I definitely think you should be present at the checkout. Take photos of absolutely everything too - inside of fridge, toilet, inside cupboards....you get the idea. Then if there are any disputes you'll have evidence to back you up.

OurBlanche I understand your point, but as a tenant I always wanted to be there, and I am glad I did! One time, the person doing the inventory was about to write down that they were cigarette burns on the wooden floor, and I had to insist there wasn't (noone smoked there), and bring a brighter light so she could see it was wood nodes.

Oh! Just realised I was speaking as a clerk, not very helpful, sorry

As a tenant I always took my own pictures, was there at check out and had my full say... that is always recommended. And I have to remember I have seen some appalling paperwork, by LLs, LAs and Clerks alike... so yes, always be there

Zhabr they can say 'must be professionally cleaned' until the cows come home. If it was not described as such in the inventory, if there were any notes re dust, dirt etc, then you don't have to comply with their request You only have to leave it as you found it. Ask the clerk to add 'as per ingoing inventory' or other similar note to the 'General Cleanliness' comment on the check out as well as the comments against the curtains etc.

Souper, I think you must have had the inventory clerk from our last tenancy. They wrote in the report that the toaster was missing, and then included a photograph of the kitchen, in which the toaster was plainly sat on the worksurface

Oh! Just realised I was speaking as a clerk haha

Oh don't. My worst was getting home with a complete 4 bed inventory all done and dusted... the re-read the LAs email... 5 bed

I walked back through my memory of that house, many doors, 3 corridors... where could they hide a 5th bedroom?

Read the online bumf... being a total lemon I had called the small ground floor room at the side of the Dining Room a Study...

From memory they not allowed to charge a checkin and checkout. Check that with cab. Normally you have a check the day you move out.

Not sure there is any legislation on that, londonrach.

Check In is not mentioned by Shelter, though many consider the Inventory/Check In to be the same thing - they are not. You can't be charged Check Out if you weren't told up front...

england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/private_renting/costs_of_renting/letting_agent_fees_and_charges

I suppose you could claim that it is unfair practice, Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 clauses regarding payment of charges must be fair. Lumping the tenant with the cost for both could be unfair

Ourblanch... So glad ive now left the rental trap after 15 years of renting. Just googled. Not that it matters as sounds like op is sorted now. We also never professionally cleaned a property and have always got our deposit back 100% (proud record after 10 properties, husband job involved moving alot). Usually hire a carpet cleaner ourselves as do a better job than the professionals. I also take photos on entrance and exit of property with a copy sent to the agents and landlord. You be surprised what professional cleaners dont clean....top of doors, the seal of washing machine etc.

www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/2016/07/07/letting-agent-fees-illegal/

Londonranch, OP here. It is same with us, bought our house just recently. I can't say i am sorted until I have my deposit back.
What about holes in the walls, we made some to hang pictures and photos.
Also the bathroom ceiling started peeling just recently, probably due to ventilation problem. It is maintenance, isn't it? The bathroom has not been refurbished for the 18 years, since the house was built.

After 7 years, tough for the LL... most of it would be considered wear and tear... though they could claim for a contribution for the holes. After 7 years I doubt it would be worth their while.

london It is generally considered fair if the landlord pays for the inventory check-in and the tenant pays for the inventory checkout fees – or vice versa See, they seem to lump inventory and check in as one... they aren't. So if you have all 3 reports and the LL pays for the Inventory and asks the tenant to pay for the Check In and Out the fees will be much the same as paying for an Inventory and Check In. But if the tenant and LL do the Check In themselves, from a 3rd party Inventory, then there is little difference in the costs.

I suppose your best bet is to look at the fees before deciding what to agree to. Though that, again is of no use to the OP now

Does your inventory have photos? If not, do you?

I genuinely wouldn't worry, the check in inventory seems on the face of it to be wholly detailed enough to protect you from any attempt to deprive you of your deposit.

Pin holes in the wall are better and more "reasonable use" than touch up marks.

Reply back to the agent that you have no need of the additional day, you will be vacating the property prior to their contract end date and returning the keys. Once this has happened full responsibility for the property returns to them and no additional rent will be charged. In fact if they wish to pursue this, perhaps they could refund you the day you won't be using as you're leaving a day early. No? Ah, as suspected a one way charge. Erm, no thanks.

Once you have returned the property to them, they can schedule the inventory for their convenience and it's no longer your concern.

State too that you have a copy of your inventory which clearly stated the condition at time of check in, and it is to this benchmark you will be working. Their email regarding the professional cleaning is irrelevant as your property was stated as not clean.

Don't worry about the check in, clean to the standard they said in the check in inventory and photograph it to prove it for your own protection.

They can't deduct money from you when you have returned the property better than you left it (painted walls)

Trust the adjudicators. They are there to ensure fairness, and they are very good at this.

If you're worried about the standard of your inventory, maybe sending a scan of it to OurBlanche for a once over? She's way more current than I am.

It is generally considered fair if the landlord pays for the inventory check-in and the tenant pays for the inventory checkout fees – or vice versa. However if agents / landlords try to claim both fees from tenants – that will be an unfair contract term. It is only fair if the fees are shared equally

I don't agree that it's fair as the tenant has no say in this but it's been my experience in long term renting. Going to be charged it again in four weeks time.

?? Some sharing of those costs is fair. The reports protect both LL and tenant. Given no-one here has said that split is necessarily the only one, the legal one, the fairest one (that is a quote from the blog linked to), how would you like to see them shared?

Good luck with your move

What day does your contract begin and what day must you be out? The day of month you pay actual rent has nothing to do with it. For example, you may have moved in on 20th and your contract ends on the 19th but you pay your rent on 1st of each calendar month.

ourblanche I think that the landlord should pay (as I did when a landlord). It only benefits the landlord as they cannot claim from the deposit without proof/inventory.
Tenants should not have to pay admin costs because a landlord has chosen to use a particular agency.

I would prefer it to be like Scotland where this has been outlawed.
Sharing costs is not appropriate in renting (in my opinion). The tenant pays rent, that should be the end of it.