AIBU to be worried - Reintroducing the Truck System for the unemployed in the UK

[nickymanchester]

It has been reported that the UK government is starting a small trial in Manchester to pay (what I presume is) Job Seekers Allowance to people in a brand new blockchain currency called "GovCoin" - similar to BitCoin.

And that what this "money" is spent on will be tracked by the government - initially, the tracking will be on a "voluntary" basis.

So instead of actually paying real money in to a person's bank account they will now provide them with a crypto-currency on their mobile phone which can only be used in certain retailers and where the government will be tracking what the money is spent on. I can well imagine where this will lead.

One of the main backers of this is Lord Hunt, who is the Minister for "Welfare Reform" - boy does that phrase ever put the fear of god into me. As an aside, Lord Hunt was the government minister who, in 2014, said that disabled people were "not worth" the minimum wage. He is also the person behind the move to Universal Credit that, while it may have very laudable aims in theory, in practice it has been a nightmare for many of the people on the receiving end of it.

This is a quote from one of the sources:-

GovCoin Systems tests blockchain-based platform for social welfare payments in UK

Speaking at the Payments Innovation Conference 2016 on 4 July, Minister for Welfare Reform at the Department for Work and Pensions Lord Freud highlighted the ongoing trial saying:

We have been working with GovCoin Systems (and their partners, Barclays, RWE npower and University College London) for this trial. Claimants are using an app on their phones through which they are receiving and spending their benefit payments. With their consent, their transactions are being recorded on a distributed ledger to support their financial management.

Jeremy Wilson, Vice Chairman, Corporate Banking at Barclays, explained that the initiative focuses on adding an additional layer of richer data and identity onto payments, so that a deeper and more effective relationship can be established between the government and claimants.

www.econotimes.com/GovCoin-Sy...s-in-UK-233316

There are many other sites reporting this as well which you can find through googling them, for example:-

www.cityam.com/245128/governm...ain-technology

www.fstech.co.uk/fst/GovCoin_...ents_Trial.php

So why the title of this post and why my concern? Well, at school, one of the A levels I studied was history and a major part of that was the Economic & Social History of Britain in the 18th and 19th Centuries (the other part was Britain and Her Relations with the World 1914-1945, not that anyone's interested). Anyway, the Truck System was an infamous form of payments that became widespread in the UK and led to a great deal of abuse.

While, currently, these are just trials that are happening at the moment, I really do see the awful potential to become a fully fledged Truck System where the state monitors exactly what unemployed people are spending their money on, where they spend it and eventually will be able to control these things. This bit is really scary:-

so that a deeper and more effective relationship can be established between the government and claimants.

AIBU to worry about where this might lead or is it just an example of how new technologies can help young unemployed people so that they don't have to worry about pesky little things like actual having some cash in their hand but have to have pay for a mobile phone in order to access their benefits?

It's like quantititve easing. If the intention was to pump up the economy it would have been simpler (and cheaper) to gift every citizen £10,000 and let rip.

If the intention was to keep the banks afloat at the (future) expense of the taxpayer, it's perfect.

I agree. I'm not an economist, but I have been pretty good at interpreting what is happening and the likely fallout. Back in the 80s when Thatcher allowed the exporting of our manufacturing industry I predicted a poorly paid future and a widening wealth gap.

Then in 2005 I told anyone who would listen that housing was going to collapse, probably in 2007. Then in 2008 when things went tits up I said the best way to get our consumer led economy going was to put £10k in every bank account and allow those over indebted banks to fail. Something like that would've ensured that I would probably have been able to keep the flat I rented and wouoldn't have spent the last few years borderline homeless.

I remember Reggie Middleton discussing Ethereum on TV a couple of years ago, and yes, it's most interesting. He's one of the brilliant minds of our generation.

"Borderline homeless."

Im sorry to hear that Doctor Two.

I agree there are easier ways to track spending.

You could find out what I spend my cash on from my bank account. I'm well aware this happens. But I'm also one of those people who prefers to pay cash whereever possible and paypal for online transactions. Because it says 'paypal' on my bank statement not 'X company' etc

I think it will mean mass homelessness - mass ! Because, if you pay a big chunk of your rent out of your Jsa (as I did when I previously claimed) your landlord will need to have this app thing, or whatever ability to accept govcoin. If you lose your job suddenly, you will need to tell your landlord as you'll suddenly have to pay with gov coin - most landlords don't accept Hb, but you don't always have to tell then you are claiming it, in this case people will not have an option to disclose this, and how many landlords are going to know how to use this system to accept and convert gov coin into money?
How is the country going to deal with the homelessness issue?
Something tells me the fallout from this will cost billions and billions (and won't have saved them anything)
I think I need to read up on this, because it's not easy to understand - and yes, how to hack it ;-)

This is great! I think benefits should be paid in supermarket vouchers. You can buy everything you need there food/clothes/household/furniture and should not be used for cigarettes or alcohol. Benefits are there to help people when they need it not to provide a lifestyle comparable or better than someone who is working.

Buttercup why on earth should the big supermarkets who make vast profits be able to make more profits off the backs of peoples' suffering and taxpayers' money? Why should the homeless/people on benefits be deterred from more efficient and cheaper ways of feeding themselves? Have you actually READ how the Azure card operates?

This is great.
Yes absolutely whoopee fuckin doo. Of course these things are great until they happen to you.
Oh and BTW. How are people traveling to look for work and buying internet access also to look for work. If They're only given food vouchers. You're not living in the RW love.
Oh and if everI come out of work and have to claim. Why should I receive my pittence in vouchers, and be dictated to like a puppet on a string on how I spend MY money. Yes my taxes so MY money.!!!!.
The I'm alright Jack attitudes on the planet are abysmal.

So Buttercup

What if you don't want to shop at your local supermarket because you can't afford to buy everything there?

What if you have to shop at charity shops and local markets to try and buy everything? You would be screwed if you had to have vouchers

Well Buttercup its a good job i dont have the same attitude as you. Because as a childfree by choice person i could have the same attitude towards Child Benefit. I dont have that attitude by the way as my posting history will attest.

But a lot of childfree by choice ppl do have that attitude and there are a lot more of them around than there used to be. A third of women who reach 45 in 2018 will be childfree.

And their votes will be wanted just as much yours Be careful what you wish for because i bet this will not only be touted for JSA!

I might be clutching at straws here, but if we do have a GE, this could be stopped in its tracks..? Or perhaps I'm putting too many of my hopes on Labour .. (Ugh can't string a proper sentence too tired, hope people get what I'm getting at)

It's outrageous. Do you know the government snoop on what I earn and steal 40% before I even see it. No sympathy for me though I'm guessing. Benefits are a short term safety net so those affected should be upset for very long.

This has made me feel ill actually and I wish I hadn't read it. UC started as a trial and is now operating in every job centre. I've no doubt this will be in operation fully shortly.
So many questions though - surely you're going to need a grasp on technology? What about older people? No mobile phone? Mobile phone breaks??

Helena I totally agree that child benefit is not needed. if you have children then you should pay for them.

Marylou you seem to have forgotten one little thing..........loyalty cards......nectar clubcard etc.

Everybodys purchases are already recorded to some extent.

I disagree Buttercup CB is needed to help women who are being financially abused if nothing else.

Lighthouse - the Internet is free at libraries. If I were to loose my job is be happy with food vouchers as a safety net to provide for me whilst I looked for work again. I view benefits as a safety net to support you not to live a life equivalent to an earner. Obviously if you are disabled then that should be treated differently. These are my views and I'm as entitled to them as you all are to yours, not going to get goaded into arguing here.

the Internet is free at libraries

If you still have a library, that is. A lot of places don't, they have been cut. And printing things out at libraries is not free.

Your simplistic views are the epitome of what is wrong with many people in this country.

I hope you enjoy your life in la-la land.

Which libraries would they be then? The ones that are closing down.

And library internet would not have time to serve everyone because im assuming your suggestion also includes their children. The same children who need a computer and internet access to do their homework. If there are queues of kids outside the library waiting to do their homework exactly when would their parents be able to get on it to job search.

Internet use at libraries Is dependent on actually having a local library, being able to afford to get to one and being able to get on a computer. Time is restricted to 30 or 60 min slots.

The internet is free at libraries.
Yes, but bus fare to get to these libraries isn't free. .

Lots of people on this thread clearly have no experience of the relentless hurdles of the benefits system.. Internet in the library? Haha..

"If I were to loose my job is be happy with food vouchers as a safety net to provide for me whilst I looked for work again."

For some reason this reminds me of those posts where people say, "When I have a child they will only eat homegrown organic vegetables and frolic in the meadows in clothes I've woven myself."

Free internet in the library? Yes, and they can travel to the job centre on hand-reared unicorns too.

buttercup pray tell how you would pay rent top ups, gas, electric, water, clothes, shoes, a light bulb, wash clothes, replace basic things like a kettle, nappies, get to the job centre to sign on etc etc with food vouchers.

I really think anyone in favour should be forced to live on them. Not for a week in their own homes where presumably it would just be for food/ gas/ electric. Stick them in a cheap private rent, with clothes/ household goods on a par with someone who has been on the breadline for years, immediately ear mark part of their benefits as rent top up, and let them see just how fantastic a lifestyle it is. Along with the humiliation of signing on,and the odd undeserved sanction. And then when they are struggling mentally and physically after 6 months, tell them that infact you are removing what remains of their pride and forcing them to buy everything from less economical sources.

Wasn't going to reply again but just had to say to Lurked - they sell all those things in supermarkets. And in this new scheme the utilities are paid directly to the company by the government.