DD was missing, inside school, for 2 hours... I'm a bit concerned! AIBU?

[FairyCakes2009]

Hi there, about 5 years ago, I had an account, but never started any threads, so I'm a bit nervous! If I'm concerned over nothing, please don't flame me. I'm willing to listen.

My daughter (2nd daughter) is 6, she is in Year 1. The school do an end of year assembly; all the children take part, with each class doing their own little production. They have been practicing every morning (this was yesterday, obviously) and they do that at 9:30-10:30, in the school hall. DD asked to go to the toilet, half way through the practice, so I completely understand why her teacher wanted to say no. DD is very shy, so she wouldn't have asked again (I don't know if she did or didn't, but I'm 99% sure she wouldn't have)... DD wet herself, I'm not mad at the teacher for not allowing her to go, I am a bit "I really wish you let her" but they were in the middle of the practice, so she obviously hoped she could wait.

DD had managed to get out of the line (while they were walking back to their classroom) and went to hide in the toilets. By the way, this is my second daughter's account of what happened, with some of DD2's input. I'll get to why DD1 was involved, in just a second.

I have no idea if any teacher/staff member went to look for her, but DD1 was asked, at lunchtime (so 2 hours later) if she knew where her sister was. DD1, who is 10, had no idea... She went looking for her though, found her crying in the toilets, and brought her to her classroom. The TA got her a carrier bag to put her tights in, and provided her with some new underwear.

DD1 was staying over her friend's house last night, so I didn't hear any of this until today (friend's mum picked her up from school). DD2 told me she had wet herself, but that was it... However, when I asked her about it, she said pretty much the same thing as her sister.

I'm just a bit concerned that no one told me about this, or would a teacher not mention this? I'm not having a go at her teacher, I'm just genuinely curious if this is something that wouldn't be mentioned... I also don't like the fact that no one had seen her for 2 hours, she's only 6. I know she probably couldn't have gotten into any danger, but you never know.

Thank you for any advice that you may give x

[mathanxiety]

I think the elapsed time is likely to be accurate.

If they practice from 9:30 to 10:30 and the younger DD slipped out of the line at the end of the practice, and the older sister was asked at lunchtime (OP doesn't say exactly what time this was, but it is probably at the same time every day) then two hours is probably accurate.

[hotdiggedy]

I haven't read past page one but perhaps this is what happened? The children all went back to class from rehearsals to their classrooms. No-one was still left in the hall so none would be presumed missing. The teacher wouldn't have done a headcount. They may have gone out to play/gone straight back to lessons. Dinner time came and the dinner lady/TA notices that your child on the register to eat but isn't there for the food so she goes to ask your older daughter if she has seen her (probably asked other children in the class too). Your daughter is then found in the toilets crying. She probably didn't tell anyone that she has been there since rehearsals (maybe she did, I don't know) so the adult in charge assumed she has been there briefly and just changed her and didn't think much about it so therefore didn't tell the teacher. Or maybe she did but again, its just a toilet accident and these things happen every day so why think to tell the parents?

I wouldn't make a fuss over the toilet break. In these cases if one wants to go during a performance, loads will want to go and therefore its disruptive. The teachers will have been so busy she will just have not thought more about it. I am sure the teacher will be mortified to hear that your daughter went off and hid in the toilets for so long but with so many children in one class these things are always possible.

Maybe this is a good cue for you to somehow work with your daughter to get over her shyness and so on so that she is braver in upcoming situations? There is nothing wrong in mentioning it to the teacher (please don't be one of those parents who marches to the head for everything!) and present it in more of a - she was so shy and embarrassed she hid in the toilets for ages, can you think of any strategies for her self confidence/shyness etc, I can totally understand you are so busy it would be really difficult to notice a child had slipped of somewhere type way. In year one the children will possible not be sat at tables all day so it isn't like the teacher will have noticed there was an empty desk space.

[hotdiggedy]

To all the people who would be absolutely FURIOUS at their child not being allowed to go to the toilet; try working in a school for even just one month and see the children who ask to go to the toilet during phonics, maths, reading time, assembly, rehearsals, tidy up time and so on but never during free time or dinner time play.

Also, go looking for them during their extended toilet breaks to find them spraying water on the floor, chatting to others, messing around in the corridor, doing anything but the toilet really and then come and tell us your thoughts!

[MudCity]

Child is six. Had wet herself. Was most likely upset and hugely embarrassed. Didn't know what to do because clothes were wet. Had already asked her teacher if she could go to the toilet but been told no. Was she meant to go up to the teacher and explain she had wet herself? In front of the other children?

She didn't hide in the loos because she was being naughty or disobeying instruction. She hid in the loos because she was upset and embarrassed. Perfectly understandable.

This isn't a child playing on the railway lines against express instruction...this is a child who wanted to go to the loo urgently. It's a school not an army camp. Holding onto your wee at any age is not a good idea and if you want to develop emotional and psychological issues later in life then being deprived of going for a wee when you need to won't help.

[MissClarke86]

I'd love to see some of you with your liberal toilet opinions in a classroom where every child is allowed to go when they ask.

You'd soon be complaining that the lessons were constantly disrupted and your DCs weren't being taught effectively!

We have to make judgement calls. It's not cruelty, if children genuinely need it then they go, but they aren't toddlers and can normally hold it a few minutes until the next activity.

Occasionally we get it wrong, but if we let every child go every time you can wave goodbye to any learning.

[DesolateWaist]

Holding onto your wee at any age is not a good idea and if you want to develop emotional and psychological issues later in life then being deprived of going for a wee when you need to won't help.

Are you honestly saying that asking a child to hold on for 5 minutes is going to cause them to be a psychological mess as an adult.
What do you do if you are on a long car journey or in another situation where using the toilet instantly isn't an option?

[Verbena37]

For the teachers being harsh about children going to the loo in class time, they perhaps need to check out the ERIC website and then decide whether making children wait is a good idea.

As a parent, I honestly would want their teacher to put my child's physicsal wellbeing before missing five minutes of phonics.
Teachers seem to forget, they are the carers of my children every week day and I expect them to care for my child as I would......although that rarely happens.

They are not simply there to teach my child....they are there to give pastoral care.

[hotdiggedy]

It isn't just a case of one child occasionally missing 5 minutes of phonics though.

[Tanith]

I'd check that the 2 hours is accurate. I have a vivid memory of having an accident during storytime when I was 5 and the teacher sending the whole class to the toilet. I was so scared and ashamed, I stayed there until my mother came with the teacher to find me.
It felt like I was there for hours and hours and that I'd be there forever but, in reality, couldn't possibly be more than half an hour at most. Storytime was the last activity before home time. For me, it was terrifying and traumatic; for the teacher, it was a fairly typical event with a class of 5 year olds.

With only your DDs' explanations - and DD1 was only involved once they realised DD2 was missing, I think you need to check what really happened first.
Perhaps the teacher didn't mention it because, from her point of view, it wasn't really a traumatic, long-drawn-out event; it was just a typical accident and she simply forgot about the wet pants.

[DesolateWaist]

It isn't just a case of one child occasionally missing 5 minutes of phonics though

No, it's a sometimes a case of children going to the toilet to muck about with friends. Children lie about needing the toilet all the time.

[Hulababy]

There must have been a playtime in that time - after the rehearsal maybe?? I'm surprised another child didn't notice her. It when they did realise she was missing a member of staff didn't automatically check the toilets as that's the most obvious place.

Re no toilets. They were in the middle of a rehearsal. I assume the final performance is very very soon. Maybe they've had loads asking - it is definitely not unusual for young children to use going to the toilet as a distraction from sitting waiting for their turn. I imagine the teacher told them to go fire it started, and then it would have been playtime - so probably only an hour to 90 minutes. And in the real show they would be encouraged strongly not to go so do need to get used to sitting for that length of time. Obviously if there is a medical reason or absolutely desperate exceptions should be made.

Yes it is concerning they didn't miss her for two hours. The teacher and the TA, and surprising the other children didn't either. It's definitely not the norm and is a worry that needs chasing up. But you need to hear the other side too before getting too worked up. Listen to both sides and take it from there.

And do encourage dd to speak up, and not to hide even if upset and embarrassed. Maybe come up with a plan of action for any future issues of who she feels she could tell any problems too. I know it might be a one off but if she's a bit shy it may help her.

[hotdiggedy]

I really do think that in an awful lot of cases, children don't actually need the toilet. Quite often, they ask to go, are asked to wait a bit then magically, once the learning is over and they are free to partake in activities of their choosing, they no longer need. 'But you said you needed a little while ago' 'Oh no, I was just kidding/don't really/changed my mind'......

[123therearenomoreusernames]

I would be furious at any attempt to make older Dd feel responsible for younger Dd. A child is never responsible for the behaviour of younger siblings in school.

[GoblinLittleOwl]

Ask at the school on Monday to establish what happened. You don't need to make a big issue out of it.
Who asked your elder daughter to look for her; TA, Teacher, dinner lady? If your daughter was missed the first place anyone would look would be in the toilets so it sounds a bit odd that only your daughter was able to find her.

I once spent a lunchtime searching for a missing boy, even going to check he had not run home; he was found in the (outside) toilets, where he had spent an hour perched on the toilet with his feet braced against the door so it appeared unlocked from outside; no feet visible when you looked under the door. He was seven.

[FitbitAddict]

I took DSD to Legoland when she was 5. We were in the water play bit that's fenced off and has a security guard or member of staff on both the entry gate and exit gate and they have timed sessions so there isn't a constant flow of traffic. I was following her around as best I could when she was in a swimsuit and I was dressed and some areas were knee deep in water and it was spraying in all directions. I temporarily lost sight of her as she moved around and then as I looked for her I found her with a security guard. A mum had noticed her looking upset and taken her over to the guard.

I didn't even mention the incident to DH as it was such a non event - it was only two minutes that I couldn't see her and she was perfectly safe. This blew up in my face when she went back to her mum and told her that I lost her in Legoland for two hours and the security man was called David and he looked after her until I turned up

So, two hours to a five year old is not reliable information. Talk to the teacher and get the real story. If she really was missing for two hours, I'd definitely want to take it further.

[mathanxiety]

I'd love to see some of you with your liberal toilet opinions in a classroom where every child is allowed to go when they ask

As I said upthread, my DCs' school allowed children to drink water during the day in class. There was a signal to go to the loo that was different from raising a hand to answer a question - they raised a fist. The teacher would nod if she noticed the fist up so no verbal interruption was needed. There were three hall passes and if one was available then the child could take it and go. Only three children could be out at any given time. If it looked as if a particular child was out at the loo a lot, then the teachers would call parents.

Liberal (humane?) toilet policies do not result in a free for all.

It could be much more than 'a few minutes' before the next activity. Each class period was about 40 minutes. A child might be crossing her legs for that long, and obviously distracted and perhaps not really paying attention to the phonics or whatever. I wonder how closely the OP's DD was following the rehearsal.

[MudCity]

Agree with mathanxiety....I have seen similar systems work well and they have not caused mass disruption in the classroom at all. Teachers soon get to know which children are constantly asking to use the loo and can identify patterns in their behaviour and look at possible reasons for this.

If a child genuinely needs to use the loo there is no mileage in saying no without good reason. They won't be able to concentrate or focus on their learning until they have been. Surely we can all relate to this? I'm sure many employers would be thrilled if their staff only went to the loo at lunch time and after work. Doesn't work like that though does it? You wouldn't refuse an adult's request to use the loo so why would you refuse a child's request without good reason? I understand teachers are under pressure but being reasonable and humane is possible even in the most pressured environments.

OP, I do hope the school give you some answers and you feel reassured with their response.

[123therearenomoreusernames]

Dd's school operate a toilet pass system. Each class has two a boy one and a girl one. Any child can go to the toilet as long as their isn't another girl/boy out of the class. The system works well. The also can all go at lunch and break except for the younger classes who are also brought out by TA in groups of 5 at midway point of lunch/dinner.

[MiscellaneousAssortment]

As mud wrote:

"Child is six. Had wet herself. Was most likely upset and hugely embarrassed. Didn't know what to do because clothes were wet. Had already asked her teacher if she could go to the toilet but been told no. Was she meant to go up to the teacher and explain she had wet herself? In front of the other children?

She didn't hide in the loos because she was being naughty or disobeying instruction. She hid in the loos because she was upset and embarrassed. Perfectly understandable."

By the way, there are lots of ways for teaching staff to maintain learnings time and control whilst also avoiding poor children wearing themselves and being humiliated in public. I have faith in the teaching profession that they'd be able to deal with this routine part of school life. After all children needing the toilet is hardly a new and surprising circumstance!

[FairyCakes2009]

Story was correct. TA had looked in the toilet, spoke to the receptionist (to get another staff member to help look), who thought my daughter was the girl who went home (no idea why ) so asked DD1 if she knew why... To be honest, it's all really odd. She said she was incredibly sorry and that it was a whole lot of poor communication. I didn't really know what else to say to that. The school is great, the staff are lovely, I think it was just a massive mistake...

[CoraPirbright]

Speaking of massive mistakes, what sort of school denies a child the opportunity to go for a pee??? Utterly ridiculous. No wonder the poor mite was mortified when she ended up wetting herself. I would be writing a strongly worded letter of complaint - lovely or not, the school needs to get a grip.

[user1467101855]

I'd love to see some of you with your liberal toilet opinions in a classroom where every child is allowed to go when they ask

Our school just has toilets in every classroom. It isn't an issue. Why wouldn't a child be allowed to go the toilet?