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AIBU?

DD was missing, inside school, for 2 hours... I'm a bit concerned! AIBU?

141 replies

FairyCakes2009 · 09/07/2016 21:02

Hi there, about 5 years ago, I had an account, but never started any threads, so I'm a bit nervous! If I'm concerned over nothing, please don't flame me. I'm willing to listen.

My daughter (2nd daughter) is 6, she is in Year 1. The school do an end of year assembly; all the children take part, with each class doing their own little production. They have been practicing every morning (this was yesterday, obviously) and they do that at 9:30-10:30, in the school hall. DD asked to go to the toilet, half way through the practice, so I completely understand why her teacher wanted to say no. DD is very shy, so she wouldn't have asked again (I don't know if she did or didn't, but I'm 99% sure she wouldn't have)... DD wet herself, I'm not mad at the teacher for not allowing her to go, I am a bit "I really wish you let her" but they were in the middle of the practice, so she obviously hoped she could wait.

DD had managed to get out of the line (while they were walking back to their classroom) and went to hide in the toilets. By the way, this is my second daughter's account of what happened, with some of DD2's input. I'll get to why DD1 was involved, in just a second.

I have no idea if any teacher/staff member went to look for her, but DD1 was asked, at lunchtime (so 2 hours later) if she knew where her sister was. DD1, who is 10, had no idea... She went looking for her though, found her crying in the toilets, and brought her to her classroom. The TA got her a carrier bag to put her tights in, and provided her with some new underwear.

DD1 was staying over her friend's house last night, so I didn't hear any of this until today (friend's mum picked her up from school). DD2 told me she had wet herself, but that was it... However, when I asked her about it, she said pretty much the same thing as her sister.

I'm just a bit concerned that no one told me about this, or would a teacher not mention this? I'm not having a go at her teacher, I'm just genuinely curious if this is something that wouldn't be mentioned... I also don't like the fact that no one had seen her for 2 hours, she's only 6. I know she probably couldn't have gotten into any danger, but you never know.

Thank you for any advice that you may give x

OP posts:

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MudCity · 09/07/2016 22:22

YANBU.

I have an issue with any adult telling a child they can't go to the toilet. Absolutely not on. If someone needs to go, they need to go. It is cruel to say no. You will need to speak with the teacher to find out their version of events, I would be very unhappy with the school.

allowlsthinkalot · 09/07/2016 22:25

I would be furious if my child was not allowed to go to the toilet and wet herself as a result.

I can't understand why you're not more proactive about this policy, OP - just because it's school policy doesn't mean you can challenge it. You could ask to see the continence policy. They may not have one.

sleeponeday · 09/07/2016 22:26

Pearlman yeah, that's the thing - if it was a rehearsal then I would understand the oversight. But at KS1 they have set placements for just about everything - a kid not on the right table should be immediately apparent, and they didn't notice for two hours.

I do feel for the teacher - she must have been beside herself with worry when she realised one of the class were gone. But I still think the OP needs to have a conversation with her to ask what happened, and how it was possible. And then I'd want a conversation with the Head (and then, probably, Governors) on how sensible this policy is, when applied to a KS1 cohort with their own separate loos.

Pipbin · 09/07/2016 22:27

While I agree with not stopping children going to the toilet a lot of children do lie about needing to go, yes even in Reception.
I'm not saying that is what your DD did but I think it does need to be understood before making blanket statements about how all children should be allowed to go at all times.

FairyCakes2009 · 09/07/2016 22:28

allowlsthinkalot - I am trying to look for the policy, on their website? How can I be more proactive, it's Saturday...

OP posts:

Dontlikethedailyfail21 · 09/07/2016 22:29

OP this is not aimed directly at your child/situation. Just a comment on schools toilet policies.
I am a TA in Reception. Like it or not lots of children do ask to go to the toilet to get out of tasks they don't want to do (even the angelic ones).They ask to go to the toilet to mess about with friends. They ask to go to the toilet for lots of reasons that aren't necessarily because they actually do need to go to the toilet.
Of course sometimes they do actually need to go to the toilet!
Schools do not have the staffing levels to have an adult permenently stationed in the toilet. As a TA I do spend a lot of my time in there though sorting out various behaviour, avoidance, mess etc.
Toilet time does cause disruption to the whole class. In Reception we tend to say yes to pretty much every toilet request but as you get to know the children and their behaviour you have sometimes have to make a judgement as to whether it is a genuine request or not. Things that influence my decision are - the child and behaviour precedents (e,g are they know for multiple requests to go to the toilet to get out of work), are they know for messing about in the toilets, is this a second request (if so I always let them go), are they hopping around or holding themselves, have they just been 1 minute ago, were they just whispering to their friend to meet them in the toilet, has their friend just gone to the toilet?
We err on the side of caution but as they approach Year 1 we are encouraging them to try and wait until the teacher has finished talking, for an appropriate point in the lesson or for break times. If there are already a number in the toilet and I know all toilets are full I might ask them to wait until someone gets back.
Otherwise children can miss out on a lot of teaching. The children can also potentially miss out in the classroom if the TA is permenently checking on the toilets.
It's a difficult one and fortunately I have not had a child wet themselves. I know if I did I would feel absolutely awful. Despite this I still do not feel it's appropriate to let every child go to the toilet every time they ask - as often the requests are not genuine and it's not in the child's interests to spend time out of lessons.

Fairuza · 09/07/2016 22:32

It would be pretty normal for a teacher to ask a child in Y1 if they can wait before going - if they were teaching at the time, or otherwise in the middle of something.

The more I think about it, the more '2 hours' seems very unlikely.

If they went back to class the teacher would have noticed she was missing as soon as the children sat down in their normal places at tables or on the carpet (or the child who sits next to her would have said 'Miss where is..?'). As soon as the teacher started handing out maths or literacy books she would have noticed a child missing.

MudCity · 09/07/2016 22:33

if a teacher thinks a child is lying about needing the toilet then it is up to them to speak to the child concerned and find out what is going on.

But no, I genuinely think that you are on dodgy ground if you refuse anyone the right to go to the toilet. It is potentially very distressing and humiliating for the child and damaging for their self-esteem.

I would be speaking with the teacher and making it clear that she made the wrong call.

Dreamstosell · 09/07/2016 22:34

Is it possible that the timings are all wrong and that she slipped out of the line at lunch time rather than earlier and hid in the toilets then and was missed quite quickly? Could the rehearsal time have been changed yesterday and have been before lunch? I've been a primary teacher and find it hard to believe that no one would have noticed her missing from the class for two hours. Even without doing a head count an empty seat is noticeable if the children have returned to their desks which it's likely they did at some point. Other children are usually quick to point out that someone is missing as well. Also if she was missing at break again some of her friends are likely to mention it.

FairyCakes2009 · 09/07/2016 22:35

I do understand the toilet policy, I was one of them awful kids that went to get out of things... So I get it, that's why I said in my OP about it my DD is so shy though, so it's a shame that she wouldn't ask again, as she probably would have let her go. It was hard though, as DD has a line to say so I had no idea if it was before or after her line had been said, so she may have just wanted her to say her line first. I do tell DD to ask before she is absolutely desperate, so there's time for the teacher to finish what they're saying/DD to finish what she is doing, etc.

Its the fact they lost her...! I get it was a mistake, I just feel so bad for my poor little girl.

OP posts:

Pearlman · 09/07/2016 22:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MadSprocker · 09/07/2016 22:36

I work in a primary school and we don't have a separate toile ting policy, but as the children get older there is a certain expectation for the children to go in break times. Our toilets only have three cubicles in each section, so if there are already three children in there, the others have to wait. Also certain children are asked to wait until their friend has finished and then go as behaviour problems can happen in there. We have also resorted to writing down how many times children go to the toilet, sometimes for behaviour reasons, sometimes medical reasons when we suspect a possible UTI.

MudCity · 09/07/2016 22:37

I remember having a 'one at a time' policy at school which meant we couldn't mess about with friends in the loos. It seemed to work.

FairyCakes2009 · 09/07/2016 22:38

Pearlman - Thank you yes, I'll make sure to get the teacher's side too, I think it's so hard when they're little, as kids just sometimes do get mixed up. Maybe rehearsal was changed, that would make sense.

OP posts:

Fairuza · 09/07/2016 22:39

Hiding in the toilets isn't quite the same as being lost.

Atthebottomofthegarden · 09/07/2016 22:39

It seems rather odd that the TA asked her sister to search for her before checking the toilets herself - seems a pretty obvious place and clearly your DD1 thought so too!

FairyCakes2009 · 09/07/2016 22:41

Fairuza - she was lost to them?

OP posts:

sleeponeday · 09/07/2016 22:41

Not all school policies will be on the website. In fact in most schools, most policies won't be, in my experience. They want parents to be aware of the key ones (homework, bullying, absence, SEN, safeguarding, complaints) but they have to consider just about every detail of the children's lives in their care, and there wouldn't really be much point in having it all up there - they want parents to easily find the bits that matter most, I think.

It does seem poorly thought-through if KS1 kids, with their own separate loos, can't access them on request. Accidents will be inevitable, and that must disrupt an affected child's learning, I would think, as well as wasting the time of the staff.

They are probably very relieved you are the parent in question. Some people would have gone very, very ballistic - which wouldn't achieve much that is positive. Being calm and reasoned as you are, you may be able to get the policy looked at more sensibly, and with any luck, altered.

Really sorry you are in this position. It's horrible, knowing you have to question your child's school over something serious.

thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter · 09/07/2016 22:44

Aww the poor poppet, the thought of her wet and crying in the toilets is heartbreaking

How did the the teacher or TA not notice she wasn't there for like hours?! And also not notice a puddle?

It's not like she'd already been and had asked again. I just don't why they'd refuse, yeah I know it wasn't a convenient time but we're all used to kids not peeing to our timetable! Kids at that age frequently leave it to the last minute to ask, plus I'd rather let them go to the toilet even if you suspect they don't really need it than have to deal with mopping up wee.

I'd be having words on Monday with the head.

nannylife · 09/07/2016 22:48

Hi op, sorry I've not read the entire post as there are lots of advice on here. One thing that pops into my head, are you sure that rehearsal was between 9:30 and 10:30? Perhaps it was changed to just before lunchtime ? Meaning she may have only been in the loos for a very short period of time?

nannylife · 09/07/2016 22:49

Although I don't understand why they asked your older DD

sleeponeday · 09/07/2016 22:50

It seems rather odd that the TA asked her sister to search for her before checking the toilets herself - seems a pretty obvious place and clearly your DD1 thought so too!

If there were separate KS1 loos they may have checked those, not the older kids' ones? I'd think that was entirely reasonable of them. Especially as it wouldn't cross their minds she was gone so long.

What really puzzles me is that the kids on her table didn't say anything when she didn't appear.

MudCity · 09/07/2016 22:50

Agree totally with ecumenicalmatter above.

Besides, you can't have a blanket policy on toilet use. The teacher has to use their judgement and my judgement would be that if a child needs to go, they should be allowed to do so. If they need to go all the time then record it and discuss with the child / their parents to make sure there are no other unmet needs.

Obeliskherder · 09/07/2016 22:55

Sleeponeday why so puzzling? Ours don't have set places until juniors.

Dutchcourage · 09/07/2016 22:59

I'd be furious about this.

Everybody has the right to go to the toilet.
There could of been a fire and nobody would have known where she was.

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