To think it's normal for women to not get married or have children?

[Owllady]

For whatever reason
Or
No reason at all!

I know loads of women, through choice or not who haven't had children or married, have had a career or haven't. Why do the media make such a deal out of it?

Yes it's completely normal in my world.

My best friend is not married and has no kids - and nor does she want either. I'm married with 4.

I actually cringe when I hear people saying to her that she'll change her mind when she meets the right person.

We were at a wedding once when she was holding my youngest and an older person said to her 'awww. doesn't it make you broody. it'll be your turn next'

she looked this woman square in the eye sand said 'i think he just shat on my hand'

and that was the end of that conversation.

supersoft Newspapers are banging on all the time about low birthrates and those selfish childless people who choose rationality over sentiment ... as though economic rationalism should not seep into the daily life of the common man.

I don't think it's abnormal.
I know roughly the same amount of men and women who are not married and have no children. What i find weird is that its generally accepted as fair enough if a man wants neither (ime)
Whereas several female friends are often asked 'so when are you having children then', receive shocked reactions when they say they're not planning to, and get told they'll change their mind, should do it while they still can, and will regret it if they don't. It's like you can't be a normal woman if it's not part of your life plan.

My best friend is very happily married, has a successful career which involves working with children, loves kids, owns her own home and has tons of hobbies and ambitions. She doesn't want kids of her own though. She is sick to the back teeth of people assuming that she does, or should. She's happy with her life the way it is!

Oh women can't win, ever. You can have no children and be labelled selfish, you can have one child and still be labelled selfish, if you have any more than two you are a breeder and a drain on the world'a resources, that's me, hello.

You may be in the fortunate position of having two and have achieved the societally acceptable number of children. But don't count your chickens yet because you are either a mother who works or a mother who doesn't work, so either way, you are in the wrong.

There won't become a time where women will be granted the license to do as they wish without comment. So the best bet is, IMO, to just not give a fuck - to not seek approval in the media or from friends and family, until people give up hen pecking women into the 'wrong' box.

Well the low birth rate is a concern mimishimmi here in the West. Why do you suppose Angela Merkel invited 1.5 million mostly young, Muslim men into Germany recently?

Have you seen the condom packets in Germany they're called - 'Anti-Baby'.

Try being a childfree woman lower down the socio economic scale . Asked why i dont have children but i know damn well that if i had it would be "Why did you have kids you cant afford"

Another thing that fucks me off is the assumption that you must be a right winger who hates parents getting Child Benefit if you are childfree. Anyone who knows my posting history on here knows im the opposite of that.

Oh women can't win, ever. You can have no children and be labelled selfish, you can have one child and still be labelled selfish, if you have any more than two you are a breeder Blimey, coming across like you have a bit of a chip on yer shoulder there.

Well she's right. Women can't win. It's not a game we're meant to win. So refuse to play, take your ball, go home and do what makes you happy

The comments about Teresa May and Nicola Sturgeon are disgusting. Teresa May had said that she's not childfree by choice and those comments must be horribly hurtful

There seems to be a lot of assumption on this thread that singleness and childlessness is largely down to choice. Of course it is a choice in a lot of cases, and it's a perfectly valid choice, but I'm sure there are plenty of women who would have liked to find a partner and have children. I think being seen as abnormal is a different experience for women in that "category" - it adds to the existing feelings of self-doubt and insecurity (at least, that's my experience) whereas for women living essentially the same life, but as one they chose, I would expect that judgement to prove annoying but not necessarily painful.

And on the subject of being treated like a piece of meat, my first serious boyfriend dumped me because I couldn't have children - but only after persuading me to lose my virginity with him, while knowing all along that I was infertile.

More recently I seem to be a target for middle-aged married men looking for an affair.

A chip on my shoulder? What an odd thing to say supersoftcuddlytoys.

It seems to me that the point I made is so plainly obvious as to be fairly unremarkable, let alone worthy of such witty derision. Are you on glue of the opinion that women are not criticised in every situation and circumstance?

I don't have any nippers, don't want any and probably can't (never tried).

Been chucked over it, interrogated, told I'll change my mind, but I'm sticking to it. It's not my thing and it doesn't make me less of a woman or worthless to society, which is something that has been suggested to me in the past.

It's not actually that unusual for women not to have any kids, but a lot seem to keep it pretty quiet. Possibly due to the idiotic opinions people have about childlessness.

Keeping dogs is the way forward!

Brilliant Kondo a woman's place is in the wrong.

supersoft: Lots of women have chips on their shoulders .... hence the low birthrates or not breeding with the people they think we should. And why not? We're ruled by a bunch of criminals and it has all come to light. Who can compete with that?

Are you confusing "a chip on the shoulder" with "an accurate understanding of the treatment of women in our society"?

super In Ireland if you are a single mother draining the state to provide for your children you are a cretin. However if you dare try and control your own fertility be that never having children or terminating a pregnancy you are the devil. I'm living it here right now so yes women can't win and it has nothing to do with having a chip on their shoulder

It's more acceptable than in, say, my mum's generation. Im single and childless, by choice. Ive never been called weird or made to made feel it, but you can tell people are sometimes wondering why you are not with someone/looking to be with someone.
I think people just like being coupled up and although they may not think you're weird, I dont think they can quite understand it.

I had my first child at 36 and I've several friends who have no kids at all. I must say myself and my mates have never felt in any way 'judged' or 'victimised' either berts.

We are a sexually reproducing species after all. Naturally there's always going to be a greater approval for child birth, than there is for not. The destiny of the human race depends on it, so it's only natural. If you want to take the default preference of people as corrosive and detrimental to your freedom of choice? Well that's up to you. Personally I think its probably just a symptom of our epoch that we are all looking for our place in the "I'm suffering here" hierarchy.

Either way - human culture has a default preference for seeing children born. If I hadn't had children I like to think I would be taking advantage of the extra time, money, and overall freedom I would have had.