unsure about the petition

[wishfulthink]

I voted to remain but I just don't know how I feel about the petition - it's a democracy and the voting is now done. The damage and hurt is already here, it won't go away if the petition is successful will it??

Not so much an AIBU as an is there any point? Please can someone explain it to me...

[Livingtothefull]

For God's sake, once again this isn't about 'foot stamping and tantrums that nothing but their own way would never be enough'; this is about the future of our country, it deeply concerns us all.

This has consequences even way beyond the UK. It is not like a GE where we get another chance to vote every few years; this is an irrevocable decision. I don't think anyone's views should be disregarded, would just like to have a plan in place so we know what we are voting for. At the moment there isn't one. I don't think anyone voted for this chaos and for the breakup of our country.

[KidLorneRoll]

"Your evidence for that."

The referendum is not legally binding. We can very easily say "actually, no, let's not be stupid".

With that in mind, there are many ways one can envision the UK backing out. A snap general election won by a party committed to keeping the UK in the EU. The EU making sufficient concessions to convince the government to stay. The SNP making it difficult. The conservatives being unable to find a leader willing to enact the vote - it's pretty plain to see that Boris did not, in any way, expect to win and was using what was predicted a year ago to be a losing ticket to raise his profile for a possible bid for PM, and Cameron stepping down rather than immediately invoking article 50 - as he said he would - is certainly a last-ditch delay tactic.

It is by no means a done deal. There is precedent for referendum results being ignored.

The fact is that this is completely uncharted territory and the last few days should give us pause for thought. More money was wiped off the FTSE100 in one day than the UK has paid into the EU in 40 years of membership. Having made a rash, snap decision the country now needs to slow down and have a proper think about what we are about to do.

[emeraldlakes]

For God's sake, once again this isn't about 'foot stamping and tantrums that nothing but their own way would never be enough'; this is about the future of our country, it deeply concerns us all.

Yes it concerns us all which is why we were all given a vote. A 72.2% turnout of which the majority voted to leave.


I don't think anyone voted for this chaos and for the breakup of our country.

Does everyone have a crystal ball now? I mean honestly, this is getting ridiculous. You don't know that Britain will breakup. Scotland hasn't even been granted another referendum yet. If the majority value being part of the EU more than the UK - then yes they should be allowed to leave and hope they will be granted membership of the EU as a single entity which may not even happen. Other members are likely to veto them and I doubt Scotland will be pleased changing their currency.

[HopeArden]

If you are not old enough to legally buy a beer or get married then you are not old enough to vote. 16 and 17 year olds shouldn't be paying tax either imo!

This site rightly objects to racism because all people are equal, but seemingly not if you are over 65 . How do you square that?

Also the idea that we should never have been asked this question. I think we should have been asked it years ago, it wasn't the right of politicians to start signing away our democracy without checking if we minded!

Am blown away by the notion that we are all too ill informed to make this choice - why bother having general elections at all, seeing as we are all too thick to know what we are doing?

Remain have not covered themselves in glory during this campaign either. As for Gove, BJ and Farage, people voted leave in spite of them, not because of them. Even with these 3 utter twats in charge of the campaign the vote still went the way it did - that is a damning indictment of the EU and Dave's campaign.

[Floisme]

Does everyone have a crystal ball now?
Exactly. Nobody has a clue what will happen and now it appears, they never did.

We've all just walked or been dragged off a cliff and no-one even knows if there's a mattress at the bottom.

[emeraldlakes]

This site rightly objects to racism because all people are equal, but seemingly not if you are over 65 hmm. How do you square that?

Or a member of the working class because in that case you're too stupid, poor and uneducated to make a decision of this magnitude apparently. On the other thread though Lily Allen is supposedly too privileged to have an opinion. You seriously cannot win with some posters. I guess they think the only ones who should have a vote are themselves as many of them are also calling for the vote to be ignored.

[Livingtothefull]

'If you are not old enough to legally buy a beer or get married then you are not old enough to vote. 16 and 17 year olds shouldn't be paying tax either imo!'

Who says? Have you heard of 'no taxation without representation'? How come it is OK for Scots 16-17 year olds to have the vote and not ours?

Nobody is saying that people are 'too thick to know what we are doing' just that the issues are complex and voters need to be fully informed about the issues at stake. This is not just another general election; with that if the wrong choice of government is made we have the opportunity to put it right every few years. This is a decision which will affect us all for years to come.

I think the referendum campaign was handled lamentably badly by both sides. Plenty of people protested about this at the time though it didn't change anything.

'You don't know that Britain will breakup'; well I don't have a crystal ball but the signs are not good. Do you honestly think most voters wanted the chaos that has ensued? I think we need to slow down and agree a way forward…that means that if Brexit goes ahead there needs to be a comprehensive and considered exit plan which as many of us as possible can live with.

[ClashCityRocker]

No. We can't just call for a rerun.

This is not the result I wanted and I spent most of Friday in a state of shock. But I think the most damaging thing to Britain at the minute isn't brexit, it's the hatred and animosity that's been bought to the forefront, and that's what needs tackling.

[annielouise]

I voted Remain and have signed the petition. Too many stories about Leavers now regretting voting that way, too many Leavers admitting they weren't fully aware of the facts, too many Leavers too thick to be allowed to vote - e.g. half of fucking Wales (and I live here). The Valleys gets so much money from the EU and they voted out?!!! You can't tell me they're responsible enough to have had this chance. Sorry, but this referendum should never have been called - the public can't be trusted with something like this.

And all the lies about the £350m a week etc. Everyone I know who voted Leave did so on immigration without a thought to the economics. It's a fucking shambles.

Democracy or not if it can be overturned, then I think it should be. However, we've already lost god knows how much and are now the sixth largest economy rather than the fifth.

[HopeArden]

Scotland offered the vote to 16 and 17 year olds in the hope of skewing the result to a vote for independance.
Still, what they do is their business, it doesn't mean I have to agree with it or want it for us.

[Littlemisslovesspiders]

too many Leavers too thick to be allowed to vote

Delightful attitude.

[emeraldlakes]

that means that if Brexit goes

If? It's been voted for and the majority wanted to leave so we will leave. Ignoring the vote or having a rerun on the referendum would cause massive civil rest. You talk about chaos and ignore the fact that not following through could cause riots. Any MP willing to go against it in parliament would likely see it as the end of their career. It's not just the leave voters concerned about democracy.

An exit plan will be decided once we begin negotiations.

[HopeArden]

annielouise words fail me. 'Half of fucking Wales too thick to be allowed to vote'!

[emeraldlakes]

Democracy or not if it can be overturned, then I think it should be.

This makes me worry much, much more for my children's future than anything that may happen due to leaving the EU. Our democratic freedoms should be far more valuable than remaining in a financial institution. Jesus Christ. I honestly can't believe what I'm reading anymore. And people are telling me that the remain voters are the ones talking sense?!

[Livingtothefull]

'I think the most damaging thing to Britain at the minute isn't brexit, it's the hatred and animosity that's been bought to the forefront, and that's what needs tackling' - agree wholeheartedly though not sure how to go about tackling this.

'Scotland offered the vote to 16 and 17 year olds …. what they do is their business' - fair enough though it seems illogical to me that Scots 16-17 year olds get to participate in this decision but not ours, even though this arguably concerns them the most as they have to live with the outcome for longest.

[annielouise]

Frankly, the numbers speak for themselves. How can Wales accept all that EU money - frankly depend on it - and not realise they'll lose it by voting Leave. Yes, too THICK to vote! Completely shot themselves in the foot. What else can they be but thick? I stand by that.

[emeraldlakes]

annielouise - That's fine, it's your opinion but just realise there were other reasons for leaving the EU apart from financial. Plus 'thick' is hardly the worst insult being thrown around about leave voters right now. In fact it's rather mild compared to what others have come out with.

I also still believe that those regretting their decision are in the minority. It's funny what the media chooses to report on isn't it? It's the same way they branded everyone who wanted out as racists, their only concerns immigration. But I guess it's only 'thick' when the leavers are believing the media, right?

[HopeArden]

People made choices based on what they believed would best serve the long term interests of the whole country. It is not just about receiving some money from the EU in the short term but having a vision of the future that involves not being shackled to a corrupt, bloated EU.

[Brandonstarkflakes]

There is no plan for now we are goingthebleavethen leave the EU! Seriously I am trying to be empathetic and understand thr Leave voters, butiI cannot fathom how we have got into this mess.

THERE IS NO PLAN!

[Brandonstarkflakes]

If? It's been voted for and the majority wanted to leave so we will leave. Ignoring the vote or having a rerun on the referendum would cause massive civil rest. You talk about chaos and ignore the fact that not following through could cause riots. Any MP willing to go against it in parliament would likely see it as the end of their career. It's not just the leave voters concerned about democracy.

Yeah, the only teeny problem with that is that we now need someone with the bollocks to pull the trigger on Article 50, now that Cameron has rather cleverly absolved himself of that responsibility.

[TheSultanofPingu]

You couldn't make it up. As BluePancakes said upthread, the petition was actually started two weeks ago by a LEAVE supporter who was convinced they were going to lose

[HopeArden]

My view is that remaining in the EU meant we were sleepwalking towards disaster - losing more and more of our democracy while being under the illusion of having freedom because we could all go and work in France if we wanted to. Not that many of us actually did. If the result had gone the other way, it would be less scary because it would be keeping the status quo, but damage would still be being done, we would just be less aware of it for now. Personally I am glad of the chance to wake up.
I am however, worried that our leaders don't have the balls for this and will fuck it up like they do everything else.

[dowhatnow]

If enough people actually think they made a mistake because of unfair campaigning then maybe there is a call for a referendum to see whether they want another referendum iyswim. If enough people want another chance to vote isn't it not democratic to ignore this?

[emeraldlakes]

the petition was actually started two weeks ago by a LEAVE supporter

And the point is? How many remain voters currently in support of the petition would oppose it if remain won?

Whoever is willing to sign a petition demanding another referendum because the vote didn't go their way is in the wrong and does not value democracy. I believe the same to be true of the leave voter who started it.

[Floisme]

If we ignore the vote then no election result would ever be allowed to stand again. So I'm not one of those calling for a rerun - once you've been dragged off a cliff, there's no going back. But please stop expecting me to behave like a good egg about it.