to say the EU are telling us they have us by the balls in tonight's announcement.

[LuluJakey1]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36599300
BBC News Tonight

'Speaking on the eve of the referendum, European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker said the UK would not get a better deal than the one already negotiated by Prime Minister David Cameron.

Leave supporter Boris Johnson the former mayor of London said the remarks showed Mr Cameron's belief that the UK could achieve further reform to immigration rules from within the EU were a "sham, snare and a delusion".

Mr Juncker made it clear there would be no scope for further negotiations over better terms to try to keep the UK on board.
"I have to add that the British policymakers and the British voters have to know there will be no kind of any renegotiation," he told reporters after talks with new Austrian Chancellor Christian Kern.
"We have concluded a deal with the prime minister, he got the maximum he could receive, we gave the maximum we could give.
"So there will be no kind of renegotiation, nor on the agreement we found in February, nor as far as any kind of treaty negotiations are concerned. Out is out.'

Pretty clear then. Whatever rubbish deal we have now we are stuck with. They will continue to dictate to us on trade deals, immigration and the European Union definition of Human Rights.

They have us by the balls and intend to squeeze them!

No, the EU won't negotiate with us if we vote Out, because otherwise every nation in the group will try it on at some point or another.

We will be made an example of. They have to! And we will be blamed (and hated) if the whole damn thing falls over.

It is understood Mr Juncker was not referring to the prospect of future reforms in the event of the UK voting to remain in the EU, something Mr Cameron has insisted will continue, including in the key area of immigration and free movement.

it feels like this hasnt been read by most

Well, that rather depends on whether you want the right to not be tortured, or to have a fair trial, or not to be a slave, or to have freedom of expression, or not to be discriminated against because of race or sex or religion.

Are you saying you don't want those rights?

I'd rather hope that we don't need other people to tell us that we need these rights. Surely the UK people are intelligent enough to be able to enact these into our own law without the EU telling us we have to.

thanks for clarifying ImNotDancing

Roonerspism, the UK has terrible maternity pay compared to everywhere else in the EU... In other EU countries you can count on up to a year on 100% + heavily subsidized childcare that barely makes a dent even in the budgets of the lowest earners...
This has nothing to do with EU "workers rights", though. The minimum UK legal provision considerably exceeds the EU requirement, and only two Countries' legal minimum provisions exceed ours -

www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/03/22/mapped-which-two-eu-countries-beat-the-uk-for-the-best-maternity/

The benefits you describe may be available, but they are not legal minima, and therefore not mandated or safeguarded by the EU.

No, the EU won't negotiate with us if we vote Out

You cannot possibly know that for certain - no one can until the event happens. You're just interpreting how you think things would play out - it's just opinion, nothing more.

For fucks sake why does someone always bring up "illegal child rapists"?? Just makes them look like ignorant xenophobic scaremongerers which they are

The remain arguments for reform within the EU relate to reform with the EU, as a member of it, as opposed to special status and opt outs in spite of the EU, which is what Cameron has negotiated and what the leave campaign are saying we can do if we vote out as a negotiation strategy.

Yes, THIS!

Bizarrely, there are people who actually want to stay in the EU who think we will somehow acquire special negotiating powers if we vote Leave and 'coerce' the EU into some kind of special deal where we get all the benefits while shirking our obligations. Juncker is telling us not to do it!

It reminds me of the quote from Mandy Rice-Davis: "well he would say that, wouldn't he"

The UK is the second largest net contributor to the EU budget. If we leave, either other countries have to pay more, or net beneficiaries get less. Neither scenario is going to go down well.

I still haven't decided how to vote and it's statements like this, from both sides, that leave me bewildered. Neither side has a crystal ball to know what will happen in the future, leave or remain, and neither side can offer proof of its claims. Both sides are adopting the project fear approach.So this isn't a vote on facts, it's down to whether the allegations of one awful crew or the other awful crew appeal to you most.

I'm thinking of turning the back garden over to growing vegetables, and declaring myself an independent state from UK and EU rule!

So if we leave, all those workers's rights and women's right that we have now will disappear in a puff of smoke?

... workers' rights ....

So if we leave, all those workers's rights and women's right that we have now will disappear in a puff of smoke? No, but Britain won't be bound to stick to the minimum requirements agreed by the EU. That coukd mean bigger flexibility for future or current law-makers. I'm extremely certain that the likes of Boris Johnson or Nigel Farage don't give a damn about either. All they want is power. It will be interesting to watch internal development in the UK after Brexit, especially the future of social welfare and NHS. Britain is already heading backwards to the elitist society, where only the boys from the upper class had the right to decide what will happen and welfare was reserved to the DESERVING poor. All those sycophantic articles about the Royal family recently only serve to bring back the found memories of the British Empire. The truth is, those times are long gone and Britain conceded its role of the World Power to the likes of China and the USA and this bond will only have to get stronger once Britain is outside the EU and doesn't share the advantages of its common regulations.

I mean bond with China and the US. And for those who complained about how US industry wanted to dictate conditions of TTIP which went against many EU regulations in terms of safety of food products etc., I am100% certain that Britain will sign this pact very soon after Brexit with no changes to it to secure its economical position.

Gosh that's a bit bald

So do read the FACTS and vote! Inform yourself properly, not digest Boris and Farage soundbites.

In all fairness to Boris, all he cares about is power. Were Cameron pro-leave, he'd be the leader of the Remain camp. He'd sign up with blood to Satan if he offered him 10 Downing in exchange. And Farage is your typical semi-fascist who hates everybody who isn't English and white and does good in England for the English rhetorics but put him into government and watch him disintegrate.

You can't call racist on no evidence gone.

SH said;

I am happy with all of those rights and many others that we benefit from and that are fair and just- however not the right of illegal immigrants who are rapists, child rapists and murderers to remain in this country and for us to have to pay for them. They should be deported and we should not be dictated to on this.

I don't particularly agree with her myself, but that's NOT racism.

Maybe 'alarmist' would be fair.

OP, you do know that illegal immigrants don't have the right to stay in this country anyway, don't you? The clue's in the name.

In other EU countries you can count on up to a year on 100% + heavily subsidized childcare that barely makes a dent even in the budgets of the lowest earners... I live in Belgium and they get very scant maternity benefits - the kids of the working Mums are in a maternelle from about three months onwards.

As for the equal pay comment - the Equal Pay Act was actually passed in 1970. Remind me when we joined the EEC? 1973? Thus, we already had this in place prior to joining the EEC.

Thank god someone else knows this!

About the echr/human rights that is. Most people don't seem to have a clue.

There are a lot of clairvoyants on this post, recycling 3rd hand anecdotes.

So if we leave, all those workers's rights and women's right that we have now will disappear in a puff of smoke

If Farage gets his way, yes.

Not only are UKIP racist, they are sexist. They want us back to the 1950s in more ways than one.