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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that Nigel Farage should not be allowed any airtime

138 replies

crossroads3 · 17/06/2016 13:27

Apologies if there has been a thread but I couldn't find one:

IMO this is the real Nigel Farage

www.newstatesman.com/2016/06/nigel-farage-s-anti-eu-poster-depicting-migrants-resembles-nazi-propaganda

yet we allow him to appear on our television screens and listen to him as if he is a normal person.

Aibu unreasonable to think that beneath his friendly man down the pub veneer lies an out and out racist determined to plant hatred in people's hearts and minds Angry.

And I have added to his publicity by creating a thread about him Angry.

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Snowcoveredthoughtcage · 17/06/2016 20:41

One point for Maria. It is possible to have marched against the invasion of Iraq and also think that Farrage is a racist. Voting for Blair does not mean I have blood on my hands. Also, the rivers of blood speech was hate speech. Actually I suspect this thread has my MIL sock puppeting on it.

scaryteacher · 17/06/2016 20:59

Sapphire It's interesting you call it bigotry - the Flemish call it preserving their language, national identity and culture, and there is some history there with how the Flemish were treated by the French speakers going some considerable way back. and especially during WW1. The Welsh are the same about their language and culture; I had a very interesting discussion with a Welsh lady about it last week when I had GCSE pre standardisation meetings in London.

I think the term 'bigotry' is too easily used when you don't and perhaps can't understand (because we are not in the situation) why preserving your language and culture is so important. It's also too easy to dismiss people as bigots when they are no such thing.

I wasn't thinking in Brugge (Bruges) once, and spoke to someone in French, asking for a bus ticket. He wouldn't talk to me. I joined the back of the queue, and next time asked in English, and was served without a problem.

There are people in the gemeente we live in, who resent English being spoken too freely, and loathe French being spoken. If one goes to the town hall, then the staff are not supposed to communicate with you in anything but Flemish, and there are subsidised language lessons for incomers.

The next gemeente along is militantly Flemish. A colleague of dh's who was a fluent French speaker was given a married quarter there; he went to the baker for bread and croissant on a Sunday morning, ordered it all in French and took out his wallet to pay. The baker, having carefully organised his order, and put it all in a bag, then proceeded to throw the bag on the floor, and stamp on the contents. He then explained that French is not a language to be used in Overijse, and that Flemish should be spoken.

It is facile to dismiss such views as bigoted; there is reasoning behind them, and you might like to consider that this is about 25 minutes in the car from Berlaymont and Schuman, the heart of the EU. It is ironic that the EU is situated in a country where some towns have two names; one in French and one in Flemish; Antwerp is Anvers, Bergen is Mons etc., and the country is divided by a language line running across it.

Segregation can be by language as well as other things, and some communities choose that rather than speaking the language of their host nation. It creates a divide, and this is what people are reacting to, that they don't feel at ease or at home any more because in their native country they consistently don't hear their mother tongue spoken. I suppose it's new for the Brits to feel like that because English is the lingua franca of the world. I always breathe a sigh of relief when I get back to the UK, as I can do the shopping in English. and don't have to worry about the correct word for things.

crossroads3 · 17/06/2016 21:20

The next gemeente along is militantly Flemish. A colleague of dh's who was a fluent French speaker was given a married quarter there; he went to the baker for bread and croissant on a Sunday morning, ordered it all in French and took out his wallet to pay. The baker, having carefully organised his order, and put it all in a bag, then proceeded to throw the bag on the floor, and stamp on the contents. He then explained that French is not a language to be used in Overijse, and that Flemish should be spoken.

I grew up in Belgium in Rhode St Genese or Sint Genesius Rode, and came across this kind of rudeness in various places. IMO it is rude and nothing else to behave in such an appalling way towards a foreigner. Just as a French speaking person should answer in Flemish if need be, so should a Flemish speaking person answer in French.
And most people in the areas in and around Brussels are bilingual.

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crossroads3 · 17/06/2016 21:24

To be fair it was only a handful of times that I was in this kind of situation - once in a launderette where someone refused to serve me or answer a question I had (which the person behind me in the queue answered instead).

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scaryteacher · 17/06/2016 21:32

You evidently haven't been to Overijse lately, and many do not or will not speak the other language. We are at the end of the 44 tram line, and lots here do not or will not speak French.

There are gemeentes that enforce the Flemish only rule in the environs of every school as well, at drop off and pick up.

Hal-Vilvoorde is one of the bilingual communes. Mine most definitely isn't.

crossroads3 · 17/06/2016 21:42

I know they won't speak the language but I think that many can. Or at the very least the man in the bakery should politely have said he didn't speak French. IME Flemish people sometimes get offended when foreigners try to speak to them in French (out of lack of knowledge about the area they are in mainly), but they should cut them some slack.

I don't think we are in danger of losing English as our lingua franca in the UK. Yes there are areas where many other languages are spoken as well but our official / business / media etc language will always be English.

It's becoming an increasingly global world and we are all citizens of all of it IMO.

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Redbindippers101 · 17/06/2016 21:50

It's not just Belgium, try speaking English in some parts of Wales!
Off to Belgium next week, hope the people in the tobacco shop speak English.

scaryteacher · 17/06/2016 21:53

I don't think we are in danger of losing English, but it may be perceived to be the case by some people.

The Flemish can get frothy about the language. In the last GE here, there was a group going round the local shops and taking down signs that weren't purely in Flemish. They created havoc in Zeeman.

I hadn't noticed many of the Flemish cutting people slack language wise, or the Walloons for that matter. Carrefour in Kraainem and Waterloo (Mont St Jean and Lasne, not the other one) always have to be done in French. No response to English, which is interesting in the latter as lots of Americans shop there, and they have an English language book section.

TooMuchMNTime · 17/06/2016 21:56

Blue, in what ways di you think multi culturalism is linked to poverty?

MariaSklodowska · 18/06/2016 17:19

" try speaking English in some parts of Wales! "

Where in Wales can you not speak English exactly?

KissMyArse · 18/06/2016 19:12

Where in Wales can you not speak English exactly?

Nowhere. You can speak English anywhere you like in Wales.

I'm guessing they are referring to the apocryphal stories of walking into a pub in Wales and everyone stops speaking English and switches to Welsh. There are parts of Wales where Welsh is very much the first language. Truth is they will already be speaking Welsh when you walk into the pub and can't be expected to switch to their second language just to make someone else happy. If a French person walked into an English pub would everyone suddenly start speaking French to accommodate them?

Yes there are some arsey types who will refuse point blank to speak English but that isn't representative of most Welsh speakers. If you learn to say 'hello', 'please' and 'thank you' in Welsh then you'll probably find even the arsey types will appreciate it and take time to be friendly. At least that's been my experience. I wouldn't go to another country without learning the basic niceties because I'm not an entitled twonk.

MariaSklodowska · 18/06/2016 19:17

" I'm guessing they are referring to the apocryphal stories of walking into a pub in Wales and everyone stops speaking English and switches to Welsh."

ha ha I was waiting for exactly that.....

WindPowerRanger · 19/06/2016 12:21

Our one family holiday in Wales in the 70s was interesting. We were staying in the holiday hovel of some English friends, and the Welsh-speaking locals were very unhappy about the influx, which I can understand. After my mother had some very tricky interactions my West African father started to do the shopping. As a fellow victim of English imperialism he was warmly welcomed.

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