To think that there should be a lot more support offered for parents who lose their children through social services?

[FedupofbeingtoldIcantusemyname]

I've seen many articles about the fact that quite often parents who lose their children through social services (adoption) will go on to have more and more children, who are usually then removed again. This means the whole cycle goes on and on and more and more children end up in the care system.

I can understand this is often due to the parents trying to replace what they have lost, many of them may have either diagnosed or undiagnosed mental health problems that might have caused them to struggle with parenting in the first place.

IME, social services don't offer enough, or any, support to stop this cycle from being repeated over and over, parents have their children taken and then just left with no thought to what happens next.

I know that their focus is the children, as it should be, and that they have limited resources but Aibu to think that something should be done to help these parents rather than just removing any more children they have?

I think it can go either way but is by no means as great as it seemed at first.

What I can't understand is they pay a fc upto £400 a week plus extras to care for a child yet a birth parent gets nowhere near this.
Now yeah there are some wonderful carers. My kids had a wonderful family their first "forever family" who took them on holidays , day trips , they spent the money on the kids whereas some do the job not completely for the right reasons.
I know the money varies but both of mine were private agency until recently and my son is now LA which I know is a lot less.

Perhaps this money could be better spent keeping kids out of care !
I wouldn't like to guess how many £1000's maybe £100'000's it's cost for my case alone , this money could go far to help parents and ok some parents do get a lot of help but in my case I've had nothing. The day they took my children was the first time they had ever come to my door and they have been back once since. I didn't get intervention .

www.gov.uk/foster-carers/help-with-the-cost-of-fostering

£400 a week were did you get that figure from

The majority of FC do not work for private agnceys they work for LAS don't get paid anywhere near that my pay worked out less than £2 per hour don't for get its 24 hours 7 days a week

24x7 is 168 hours I doubt most people would work a 168 hour week for £400 let alone 180 witch is what the LA pays

And if you think it's not a 24 hour job tell that to my daughter who is adopted she wakes on avarge 7 times a night this is due to the cocktails of drugs she was born addicted to and yes her FC had to endure the sleepless nights also

The reason why private agnceys pay more because the children are hard to place often disabled, MH issues teens

poster mumgointhroughtortur

Tell you what how much do you think Somone who works 168 hours including Christmas , ect get paid for looking after a child who has been abused beaten or neglted

And you say the BP get no were near £400 a week well I sadly have to tell you I once looked after who was servely disabled her mum blew every penny of the dla and the income support she got of crack hence her removel

I did say LA's are a lot less . I am aware of that . More and more LA carers are giving up or moving to agency for this reason because they are expected to do the same job for less money

So you no the Mjorty of FC work for the LA get under £200 for 168 hours work witch is below minimum wage but you choose to quote the pay of the few FC who work for an agancey and take on

Children who are teens , disabled or have sever MH issues

Makes me 😁Like when the daily mail quote the 5 super heads that get paid 100k as if that represents them all

Ypu could have said this is how much the majority of FC get paid £180 a week but some who work for a agancey get paid more and you didn't even mention why the children from the agancey are children no other FC can handle they are super foster carers

You go on as if the parents had this money it would some how help there parenting all £400 a week would of done for my daughter BM was futher find her crack habit she would of injected the £400 and still sell my daughter baby milk for more

Not really you clearly have not been a FC they are not moving in droves tbh it's not actually that easy to move to an agncey as you have to be re assessed and that can take up to a year

Also if your a baby carer say there would be no point moving to an agancey as they usually don't have babies ect

To go back to the op question

They are my daughters BM had the following

Probation officer
Crime pervension officer
Councils
Drugs worker
Housing officer
Sw for her and my daughter
MH nurse
GP
Hv

All these services were availed to the BM she refused all help my daughter is disabled due to her drug use this is the support we get

GP
Hv

That's fucking it not even a promis of CHAMS to help dd come to terms with her condition

mothermay

Support for adults has very little to do with support for the children. The two things are different.

I get that your incredibly angry about your DD's birth mother and I understand that but prevention is better than cure and it's not unlikely that her BM could potentially cause further children to be born into much the same situation and anything that supports mum to actively prevent this can not be a bad thing.

Sorry missed the B from the last sentance

In my city, charities provide the best support to parents who have lost their DCs to SS. SS will refer parents in difficulty to charities. Supported living and counselling charities. I do not think that SS could fulfill that remit alone.

That's part of the problem though Dione is that it is a bit of a postcode lottery as to whether you get support and help or not. My Dsis received hardly any help before or since her children left, but then we live in a rural area so no one cares particularly. This is the support she received before DC's leaving:

Told to refer herself to the GP (which she did) but unable to actually attend the counselling appointments as she had no childcare (as a single mother with no support) and SS wouldn't help.

Told to refer herself to rape support service (which she did) but they met her in a crowded public place so she didn't feel comfortable discussing her attack with them and the support was withdrawn.

Ordered to attend an alcohol support session (which she didn't need but still attended) after SW's finding one small spirit bottle in the recycling after one visit. No alcohol issues before or since. Worker signed her off after one visit.

After 9 months of wrangling was given 6hrs funding for respite for her child, which she had to sort out herself. Said respite then either cancelled or was not available for 50% of the time it was planned and needed. No alternative offered.

After DC's left:

Nothing.

Not suggesting that SS themselves should be responsible for the support themselves as they generally have enough on their plates but for it to even exist in the first place, in all areas of the country, would be nice.

I absolutely agree and have been voicing this for years but the common response is 'lack of resources'.

There is s genuine lack of resources in just about every sector that could provide helpful support to birth parents in this position. There are also crap SWs, crap service providers, and BP who don't want to (as well as can't) access the support on offer. None of the above really can be helped without more resources, but those aren't coming along any time soon, are they 😕

To give a positive example, however, DD's BM has just been allowed to keep a baby, ten years and three children after her first child was taken into care.

It is a postcode lottery OP. Dependant on funding from year to year. When times are hard, single, mothers with MH problems are an easy target.

Of course it's a postcode lottery. I come on threads like this and read others' experiences of social workers with my mouth hanging open because things happen (like mumgoingthrough above being barred from lac reviews and not being informed when her children move) because they would never happen in my local authority.

I could be wrong but I didn't interpret mum as suggesting agency rates for fc's should be handed over in cash to bp's to help. More that if the money was available for resources to support the bp in the first place there would be many dc who wouldn't need fc's. Providing mh care, or respite, or even a support worker a few times a week before there are concerns would be a lot cheaper. And more importantly in many cases would have a happier ending.

The vast majority of bp's who have dc taken into care aren't abusive addicts beyond redemption.

lady

Being barred from LAC reviews is not uncommon, neither is going to them the IC putting a rocket under the SW's bum (verbally of course) yet nothing changes.

Also not uncommon is children changing schools and foster carers with info not being exchanged unless it has to be (things like the day before a court hearing when the change was 8 weeks previously) or foster carers just declaring they no longer wish to comunicate with parents for no good reason or not complying with the s20 permissions and not being picked up on it.

One OOPC care order case that has shocked me. everybody other than the court behaving and treating mum with hostility nobody other than mum following court orders, a judge even reprimanded SW for mums reasonable attempts to get child to take responsibility for his violence and theft being used to call her abusive.CO not sucessful threshold not met because LA refused to change their stance on childs loveliness
Child described as a perfect angel (pretty much) by every CS staff member foster carer being led to believe child was a victim and no risk because no bad conduct existed it was all parental lies.
FC gets harmed child gets moved CS treat it all as if it's the FC's fault (FC previously lorded as being one of the best we have) at a family court hearing soon after where childs risk to others is the most Important factor ( but not part of care proceedings) incident not disclosed to court or parent who at that point is the only person who holds PR.
There's more but that very brief none identifying bit is what's already out there and known so quite rightly all the parent will ever let anybody talk about

That's why I say it's a postcode lottery. I'm not saying my LA is perfect (obviously) but that stuff just wouldn't happen here. Parents are only ever excluded from lac reviews if there are safety reasons or if the child is old enough to express their wishes and doesn't want them there.
If a social worker forgot or failed to inform a parent about a change of placement they would have serious words. I'm not saying it never happens but it would be the sort of thing you would get a bollocking over - it's just not how we work.

I know from colleagues who have worked in different local authorities that things can be very different.

we were blocked and patronised and vague threats were made i.e. are you questioning your commitment to this placement, would you like us to find somewhere else for the baby (that was 13 years ago, I remember it word for word

When I worked for the LA this was not unusual.

It's not unlike what happens when parents of disabled children ask for help "if you need this help you must be not coping at all, I can make a request but it will trigger a safeguarding assesment"

So the lack of coping only counts if the support asked for but not if its dropped, comes across as a threat to most people

lurked I came off this post last night coz I'm fragile as it is and I felt got at last night. I'm far from a drug addicted BP. I have never taken drugs or even smoked a fag in my life. I rarely drink I just made bad decisions staying around Dad to my kids who at the time I thought I was doing the best for them . I moved him out of the family home so our arguments were kept away from the kids as much as I possibly could but somehow this has spiralled. I take my own blame for this i certainly wasn't spending money for the kids on drugs and the like.

At the time my children were took I was given (coincidently a lady who turned out to become our contact worker for social services further down the line) a council support worker who came out to help me get my DS assessed for his behaviour but the week after her first visit they cut her job due to lack of funding. The money could go towards help like this. More help in schools. More fun stuff for kids in local neighbourhoods . I am fully aware some parents don't spend children's money on their children !

As for the lac reviews I have never been given an answer to why I can't go to them . I'm not aggressive in the least , the lac reviewing officer actually likes me he's told me many times. Made positive comments and has helped me in instances where he's gone above and beyond his job. I am always the happy , polite parent . I have bent over backwards for ss for the benefit of my kids. I even wished the Sw good luck with her move yesterday before I left . I buy carers flowers and thank you cards . At the end of the day I have to work with social services and it's not in my kids interests for me to start a war with them.
As soon as the kids went into long term fc they stopped me going to Lac reviews. But I'm not gonna mention it again until I get a solicitor now.

needsasock my kids were in a brilliant placement with a lovely couple, my son was so happy and they moved them completely out the blue and I spoke to the fc a couple of months after this and she said she never got on with the Social worker coz of her incompetence , she could never get in touch with her and some of the comments she made she felt was out of order so she put in many complaints . She felt this was the reason they moved the kids in the end because she was too much of a nuisance to them. It's shockingly unprofessional and you wouldn't think this would be allowed. Playing God with a child's life !

My 'mother' has had 9 out of 11 children adopted (my sister and I were fostered). Along the way, she was offered all sorts of support: it took years before SS began taking away the children at birth.

SS did, I think, get some things wrong (splitting up close siblings), but she was offered support. There was a house where she was monitored closely for a while ( I don't know the details of this sort of set up), she was offered supervised visits, medical assistance (with her drinking). The aim was to get us back with her in the long term.

She chose to keep drinking. As I see it, she chose alcohol and her violent husband over us. Not forgiveable.

mum sorry if anything I said upset you, and I certainly wasn't trying to imply you were in that minority group of parents who don't care or who aren't trying their best. Anything but. I think the majority are like you, loving parents who could have kept dc at home if the support had been there in the first place. I'm in full agreement with you.

I also think that in voluntary placements and guardiship there is little or no acknowledgement that the bp often loses the small support network they do have access to. I know it's not always the case, but there are occasions where the one friend/ relative the bp can rely on takes the dc, with everyone, especially the mother, agreeing it's better for the child than the care system. And there is no recognition for the fact the mother has willingly lost the only person she could rely on. Not that a trusted friend is any consolation for having your dc removed, but there's no extra support to mitigate the fact the parent can no longer turn to the friend. Yes the mum has the consolation it's better for her dc, but their should be extra help for the fact they lose that relationship as well as the child.