To think that people voting out because of immigration are going to be disappointed?

[Babysafari]

I admit I don't really understand in depth but I keep hearing people saying that they'll vote out of the EU because of immigration.

The thing is the government haven't proposed what they'd do about immigration anyway in the event of us going out of the EU.

As a lot of Brits have retired abroad and we are still going to want to trade with all these countries. I've got the feeling that we will end up with free movement anyway as part of whatever deal we come to.

People keep going on about an Australian points style system but no one can be certain that, that will be what happens.

[angelos02]

I don't think people that are already in the UK as immigrants should just be assuming they will be allowed to remain. Unless they are incredibly highly skilled, I would be assuming they would not be allowed to stay. And then, have a points based system to prove you can support yourself, your family and not rely on UK state education or NHS.

[ghostyslovesheep]

YANBU OP - 70% of UK immigrants are from outside the EU (and thus subject to our already existing 'Australian style' system or here seeking asylum) - and the point about Norway is a good one - leaving the EU wont mean we stop immigration from the EU or have more control over it.

[EssentialHummus]

Unless they are incredibly highly skilled, I would be assuming they would not be allowed to stay.

In that scenario, a lot of asses would go unwiped and a lot of streets would go unswept.

Most likely (and this is what I hope would happen, since I'm one of them), people who are already here would stay under some Grandfather provision.

[shitchef]

But most non-EU migrants are students and they are now required to leave the country after their studies are completed unless they have a guaranteed job offer earning a decent salary.

[toomuchtooold]

have a points based system to prove you can support yourself, your family and not rely on UK state education or NHS

And not pay for them either then presumably?
Would there be some sort of a la carte? I might come back if I could opt out of the NHS...

[Thymewarp]

I'm not sure any "leave" voters understand the financial resource it will require to qualify everyone who is already here under any new system. Some will just go underground and start paying no tax at all. Others will attempt to comply but the numbers are so vast you better be ready to foot the bill. All this will come at a time when there will most likely be a recession. And what about all the Brits who will be forced home without jobs? Want to support them too? It's just madness. Or you grandfather everyone in. Fine? Still a huge cost for them all to be processed. And if the EU sticks up two fingers without any free movement guarantee you've lost your trade deal. For what exactly?

[whois]

YANBU
There is a direct correlation between being a bit stupid, and voting out because of immigration. #FACT

[SolomanDaisy]

The other issue is the UK needs those low skilled workers who are prepared to do crap jobs and live in terrible conditions. There'll be some sort of new unskilled workers visa scheme within a couple of years.

[Sallyingforth]

sallyingforth will there also be swarms of locusts!
= "I have no sensible answer"

If Scotland vote again and they vote to leave that is democracy and the same with Northern Ireland.
Which, as I said, will be the end of the United Kingdom.
So you do actually agree with me.

[formerbabe]

It's the countries in the queue to join the eu which is one of the reasons why I want to leave... Albania, Turkey, Serbia etc.

Free movement of people can only work when the countries involved have comparable living standards/economies.

If Albania joined the eu for example, there would hardly be mass exodus of Brits to go there but I predict many would want to come here.

[SoThisIsSummer]

But we have no choice over immigration which leads back to democracy.

Many would argue, including the wonderful Labour MP Frank Field, that immigration affects our poorest ( which I have always known), but others argue still....its great for us - to have unlimited immigration.

Lets just say something we cant predict happens and it rises to a level, that even the people who support it, start to say - Hang on, its getting a bit much now...."

You wont be able to do a single thing about it. You can protest, appeal to your MP, and they wont be able to do a single thing about it, because it comes from higher parliament.

which comes back to why oh why cant we - the British choose how much of anything we want? Why?

[OurBlanche]

Some of dhs workmates live rurally and are terrified of 'foreigners' despite having probably never met any! Alternatively: many of us who live in rural areas are so used to having migrant/seasonal workers swell our population, mainy from Eastern Europe, we don't really consider immigration as one of the reasons for a vote either way!

I'm not sure any "leave" voters understand the financial resource it will require to qualify everyone who is already here under any new system. Some will just go underground and start paying no tax at all Which, of course, doesn't happen now, whilst we are in the EU... not ever!

There will always be a reasonabel (and many unreasonable) counter arguements on both sides. The problem still reamains that, withvery few exceptions, nobody has managed to offer an sane and sensible, reliable information either way. Any 'fcat' is really conjecture, all cinjectures are up for nterpretation and everybody has a bit of an opinion and no real idea what's happening anyway!

It is a total travesty. 30 years on and we get a referendum based on what? Fear and loathing, if the meeja is to be believed!

[RedToothBrush]

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/this-chart-shows-how-wrong-vote-leave-are-on-immigration-a7083476.html

Interesting article in the Indie today.

Yeah. More Stats. Sorry.

[namechangeparents]

Voting out will stop EU immigration but of course the camps at places like Calais will cease to exist because the French will wave them on their way. Their priority will be to get rid, and we'll be outside the EU - so getting rid to us will be just fine. We could find Ireland being a conduit as well.

Even with the massive recession we'll find ourselves in, we'll still be more attractive as a destination for someone from somewhere like Eritrea. That said, maybe they'll decide that France isn't that bad after all if our economy is trashed.

[scatterolight]

OP it doesn't sound like you are undecided.

• You don't think we have too much immigration
  
• You are reassured by the undemocractic nature of the EU because you like our politicians being overruled
  

I don't know why this is confusing to you? You should vote Remain.

Would you like to tell us why you can't make up your mind?

[SoThisIsSummer]

I would listen to Frank Field MP for Birkenhead over stats any day really. He will have seen first hand the affects of immigration on his constituents. Stats are always great to give ideas, but we know on this issue the powers that be have no way of counting people properly so we must use these numbers as a rough guide only, either way.

[EnterFunnyNameHere]

YANBU

For start, most of the people I have spoken to mostly seem upset by the "immigration" of people from The Jungle by boat etc - i.e., illegal immigration. Clue being in the title, probably illegal immigrant and people traffickers will not be put off by a Brexit as long as our economy is more preferable than where they are leaving.

I'm also a bit about the idea it will allow us to head hunt who we want to come in - will the kind of people this will target still want to come to the UK post-Brexit with the economic chaos and so on?

Also, totally agree with PP about people hugely over-estimating the amount of immigration the UK currently has... It's just a very emotive topic I guess!

[SoThisIsSummer]

Name - whatever the do to the camp in calais which is small fry in the face of the entire migrant crisis will still affect them. They decide to move it to Kent, would guess that would result in a huge surge of migrants hopefully that being on our shores, is foot in the door. That means more people surging through France.

Also many migrants of course stay and claim proper asylum in France.

[SpoonintheBin]

Great points in immigration here... And I am Really Really looking forward to all those hospitals that will be built if we leave...

[WeekendAway]

Ineedmore I think the issue is often as much about the quality of the immigrants as it is about the quantity. How many 'self employed' big issue sellers and car windscreen washers do we need?

[JassyRadlett]

People are so used to being in the EU they have forgotten that when we are out we will be a sovereign nation. We will actually be able to make our own rules

I spent most of my life in a country that wasn't a member of the EU or a similar bloc - and one that frankly had a much more democratic national parliament. I have experienced absolutely zero difference in my day to day life.

All that will happen is that instead of bitching about rules 'made in Brussels' people will bitch about rules 'made in London' where they feel they are poorly or not represented.

People keep talking about our strength as one of the world's biggest economies. I wonder if they have paused to wonder whether the EU has played a role in this?

[shitchef]

I think that if the border was returned to Dover, the responsibility for checking that travellers have the correct documents for entering the UK will pass onto the ferry and Eurostar operators in the same way that airlines/airports currently check their passengers. The arrangements for Ireland will have to be negotiated between that country and NI/UK. At the moment there is passport free travel between ROI and the UK so I guess that would form part of the negotiations.

[MetalMidget]

If we leave, we'll almost certainly have to agree to free movement of EU citizens, plus France will more than likely invalidate the treaty we have with them that allows British border police to operate in French ports such as Calais (therefore increasing the likelihood of illegal immigrants entering the country).

[SoThisIsSummer]

Steve Hilton wrote a brilliant piece in the Times this week, he is ex advisor to Cameron.

"My advice would be to stop unlimited numbers of Hungarian waiters who may be charming but who don't add much value to our economy ( I am Hungarian I am allowed to say that) start welcoming scientist and entrepreneurs from India, Russia, china who we are forced to exclude because we have to put EU migration first. We should be able to put the British economy first. "

[SoThisIsSummer]

Andrea Leadsom had a web chat on here and as she said - or something close " there are 53 countries who trade with the eu, only 3 have free movement of people" .