To think that people voting out because of immigration are going to be disappointed?

[Babysafari]

I admit I don't really understand in depth but I keep hearing people saying that they'll vote out of the EU because of immigration.

The thing is the government haven't proposed what they'd do about immigration anyway in the event of us going out of the EU.

As a lot of Brits have retired abroad and we are still going to want to trade with all these countries. I've got the feeling that we will end up with free movement anyway as part of whatever deal we come to.

People keep going on about an Australian points style system but no one can be certain that, that will be what happens.

[puglife15]

YANBU and there's a good reason Farage's poster features brown faces...

SpoonintheBin

That 'democracy' argument makes me want piss myself. How about we start with an ELECTED Head of State? And then maybe we could move on to an ELECTED House of Lords?

Exactly! Not to mention the Commons, where our voting system could be much more democratic

[Ineedmorelemonpledge]

Interesting reading from Norway...

www.politico.eu/article/eu-referendum-look-before-you-leap-norways-pm-tells-brexiteers/

[StereophonicallyChallenged]

It's not just businesses that trade with the EU that would be affected imo. I work in a small accountants practice oop north and we have many clients who would be affected by trade restrictions and the knock on could reduce our business dramatically.

[Roonerspism]

binky that is hilarious. Laughable.

You can rock up here; no job and you need not ever register. That's why where I live there are gangs of beggars who operate quite legally.

No one knows numbers as it's impossible even to find out!!!

[Binkybix]

The authorities have no idea how many EU migrants are here, three times as many NI numbers have been issued than the official EU migrant numbers. There's no way of counting the EU migrants who haven't applied for NI numbers

Whoever wrote this may want to listen to the 'more or less' podcast in this subject. It debunked the myth that the two numbers don't match up purely because we have more immigrants that being recorded in immigration data. I don't remember all the details though.

[allegretto]

Yes they will be disappointed because a lot don't have any idea that mass migration is happening everywhere and it is not true that everyone wants to come to the UK.

[LaBelleOtero]

A significant percentage of the people voting on the 23th to leave the EU will do so because of immigration.

And as the OP says, if they get their way they will almost definitely be disappointed. Firstly, the French may decide that GBs border can return to being our actual physical border instead of theirs, and we will have to deal with that alone. Secondly, it's very likely that same as with Norway we will have to allow the same freedom of movement as we do now if we want to continue to trade with those countries. Thirdly, the government has made no statement on how they intend to change immigration rules in the event of a Brexit, if they intend to change them at all.

A lot of people seem to be assuming that Brexit means not only that we leave the EU but that the money we put into the EU will then be routed into the NHS instead, and that we'll instigate some strict immigration points system like Australia. An EU exit only means that, it doesn't mean anything positive has to happen! And several politicians have tweeted reminders that the result of this vote doesn't have to be implemented. It's "advisory". They could string it out for years.

[LaBelleOtero]

When people say 'we will be in charge of our country' do they realize that the 'we' they are talking about is primarily the Tory party?

I know there has been talk that a leave vote would mean David Cameron would feel compelled to resign, but I don't believe that. He and Osborne have been shameless for the last six years and I imagine they will continue in that vein.

The things people are voting leave for - immigration, too much money used in the wrong areas - are things the Tories are not concerned with. They won't magically change with a Brexit vote. Their priority will be the financial health of the City, ordinary people ans their lives will fall way down the list.

[strangemisfit]

1. A significant percentage of the people voting on the 23th to leave the EU will do so because of immigration.
   
2. There are about 3 million EU-born citizens resident in the UK, representing the total number of expats since they begun collecting data not 15-10-5 years ago. That is a bit below 4% and about half of the overall number of expats relocating in Britain.
   
3. It would be appropriate for people to realise this: As no one can or should dictate to the British public what they should vote, people should realise the irreparable damage done to those people who have been here for a long-long-long time, integrated and made Britain home. They now feel anything from alienated to actually being vilified.
   
4. Please stop making disparaging comments about countries like Greece and Spain, kindly concentrate on what is to follow after the certain Brexit on the 24th because no one has articulated a coherent exit strategy nor considered how other countries in the EU view the whole referendum topic.
   

An expat in the UK of some 20 years.

[Babysafari]

You don't think we have too much immigration

I didn't say that, but I think that our government will come to some kind of agreement similar to what we've got now regardless.

[JoannaW24]

Who really believes that immigrants already here and in employment will leave if the UK leaves the EU? Does anyone the implications that can cost? It's unreasonable financially and politically.

[JassyRadlett]

So because we don't have those things, an undemocratic Europe is ok?

People seem to confuse 'undemocratic' with 'democratic but sometimes we lose.'

[Limer]

People aren't voting "Leave" because of immigration, it's because of uncontrolled immigration, a policy that's imposed on us by the EU.

While we remain in the EU, and the EU contains other countries that are much poorer than us, the pull factor from those countries is huge.

The authorities have no idea how many EU migrants are here, three times as many NI numbers have been issued than the official EU migrant numbers. There's no way of counting the EU migrants who haven't applied for NI numbers.

[Yokohamajojo]

I don't think people that are already in the UK as immigrants should just be assuming they will be allowed to remain. Unless they are incredibly highly skilled, I would be assuming they would not be allowed to stay. And then, have a points based system to prove you can support yourself, your family and not rely on UK state education or NHS.

How would that work though? What about the ones who have been here for a long time, who own properties, who have kids with a British Partner but don't have a high income or these fantastic skills? SAHMs who's partners are highly skilled and high earners but who wouldn't have been able to do that if they didn't have someone at home looking after the kids?

[wasonthelist]

That 'democracy' argument makes me want piss myself. How about we start with an ELECTED Head of State? And then maybe we could move on to an ELECTED House of Lords?

So because we don't have those things, an undemocratic Europe is ok?

Those people banging on about the Queen and the House of Lords make feel similarly. We are being offered a referendum on the EU, so we will consider that. When we get the referendum on the Queen and the HOL I will vote to sack them off too.

[Lasvegas]

well put squeeze pumpkin

[Salene]

YABU no one expects things to change over night this is a long term plan

I expect immigration to be delt with in next 10-20 years not next week

So no I won't be disappointed

[Squeezypumpkin]

Ouriana, I totally agree.

The EU machine is running scared of contagion and the effect it will have on the gravy train.

I work in an industry where EU regulations come out continuously and the follow-up regulations contradict the previous ones and we usually have to go back and point out the impacts of what they are requesting and how it impacts other requirements that they themselves had previously set.

[Roonerspism]

YABU

EU migrant numbers can be controlled if we Brexit. The limit is unclear however. We could certainly cap numbers.

Anyone who thinks 3 million people in a decade isn't significant is utterly bonkers. And that is before the economies of Spain and Greece collapse.

[formerbabe]

It's the countries in the queue to join the eu which is one of the reasons why I want to leave... Albania, Turkey, Serbia etc

We have a veto. They can't join unless we agree to it.

They may veto them but it will only be a matter of time till they get in IMO. The Eu will only expand. Free movement was a great idea between the original countries...once the Eastern block countries joined, it became extremely unequal. I'm in my early thirties...I don't have a single friend who has emigrated to Poland. Ask a Polish person of the same age if they know anyone who has moved to the UK...of course they will. My issue is not with individual immigrants...it's with our government who don't provide enough public services to support the increase in our population.

[SoThisIsSummer]

That 'democracy' argument makes me want piss myself. How about we start with an ELECTED Head of State? And then maybe we could move on to an ELECTED House of Lords?

^^ yes I suppose your right.

We have no democracy at all, so lets add more layers of obfuscation and bureaucracy...lets suppress ourselves further and relinquish all our power.

[SoThisIsSummer]

And of course Switzerland has today withdrawn its EU application and is suffering the same immigration concerns as us. Ie social un ease, internal problems etc

[SoThisIsSummer]

This is Andrea Leadsom response to free movement on her web chat.

she is an MP and has also worked in the city for years as well as being part of a committee to try and reform the EU ( which they failed in and decided it cant be reformed)

"Of the 50 free trade agreements that the EU has with other countries, only the ones with Switzerland, Norway and Iceland have free movement!

The EU is making all these noises at the moment to try and terrify British voters into voting to Remain. The EU’s main point is that to stay in the single market we would have to accept free movement; my point is that we shouldn’t stay in the single market! We wouldn’t want to! What has it done for us, a service-based economy, whereas the single market is for manufactured goods! Great for the Germans, less good for us!

[namechangeparents]

It's the countries in the queue to join the eu which is one of the reasons why I want to leave... Albania, Turkey, Serbia etc

We have a veto. They can't join unless we agree to it.

[SpoonintheBin]

That 'democracy' argument makes me want piss myself. How about we start with an ELECTED Head of State? And then maybe we could move on to an ELECTED House of Lords?