To think Owen Jones is childish

[sandrabedminster]

Owen Jones storms off sky news

I don't even get what his issue is, he's invited on to discuss the headlines and then runs off as he doesn't like how much attention the biggest story is getting.

I also doubt he will be invited back again. He selfishly took the focus away from the victims in Orlando and made it all about him.

I have no understanding at all of the fears faced by transpeople, I don't pretend to.

But to say the USA is a risky country for trans people to visit is only true if compared to other countries which are safe for trans people to visit.

Which countries are they?

If you can't name any then your fear applies all over the world and pointing out the USA in particular is in my view, farcical. It's the home of intersectional politics and vastly safer for everybody of all stripes than massive swathes of the world.

This thing about it being a 'lone gunman' if it had been a Christian is bullshit. Before it became clear it was an Islamist attack yesterday the net was full of lefties rushing to presume it was a right wing nutter and blame Trump, the religious right in general etc, etc. You can bet your life any links to homophobic preachers would have been raked over and the role of homophobic Christian messages in general highlighted.

Besides, I think the distinction between a gunman who acts alone and has no affiliation to or support from another organisation and one who explicitly claims affiliation to an organisation which also claims responsibility for the attack is pretty damn clear.

One is a lone gunman, the other is overtly affiliated to and supported by an organisation. The distinction is only not there for those who don't wish to see it.

Owen Jones is a twat and he was deflecting all the same. He cited the killer's father (Taliban supporter/defender) as saying the reason for the attack was the killer seeing two men kissing, as if this is a perfectly rational explanation, and as if people just magically get repulsed by this without the influence of religion

Owen Jones is the sort of idiot who wants to say 'homophobia is terrible', but then puts his hands over his ears and says 'la la la' when the source of the homophobia (unequivocally Islam) is one he doesn't like. What sort of gay man defends Islam? It's bonkers, like Jews defending Hitler

^^ Totally agree. This is where someone Like Owen gets all tied up, one can understand his frustration. I also agree he was arguing with himself and they did acknowledge it was a LGBT attack but by someone from a religion that doesn't like GAY people. He didnt seem to want to knowledge that

I agreed with this point. I assume he was bought on to sky news as a professional, if he were being professional he should have acted in a professional manner. He didn't. He would have got his point across better had he remained calm.

A terrible thing has happened and if he wants some good to come out of it, he needs to act in a more adult/selfless way. As he probably will not be invited as readily onto these type of programmes on an ongoing basis.. and there aren't many voices of out journalists to make his case, so he's essentially narrowed the debate, by making it about him not about the actual issue!

Perhaps it is a homophobic to describe a gay man as 'childish' because he feels pain when other gay people are slaughtered. And others publicly seek to minimise/misrepresent a terrible hate crime against people who aren't straight.

Because of course 'real grown-up men' are rational and controlled at all times.

YourPerception Mon 13-Jun-16 09:53:02

all your posts are exactly what i got from it.

I can't say I'm a huge fan of OJ but he was understandably upset. He was having the point he was making about this being a homophobic attack completely smacked down at every turn. So no i don't think he was being childish.

Terrorism was part of it yes, but so was homophobia, the gunman didn't start shooting up a straight club round the corner did he? It was specifically targeted and you can't keep smacking that point down just to highlight the possible IS link. It was both.

I hope he went home had a good cry and is doing something nice for himself and the actual victims in Florida. I will loose all sympathy if he becomes a professional victim over the next few days on the back of those in Orlando.

Owen Jones was too upset and angry to express himself as clearly as he is able to, but I'm soglad that that he did makes the points that describing terrorists as 'lunatics' or 'mad' is offensive and minimising of the intent involved, and that it wasn't an attack on 'people enjoying themselves' but an act of terrorism against LBGT people.

I don't blame him for walking off. The parameters of the debate as framed by the other two were batshit.

As far as I could discern from his strange behaviour his problem was that he wants Orlando to be viewed as a purely homophobic attack

He was in a state of classic Leftist cognitive dissonance because he felt incredible grief and anger but at the same time could not bring himself to blame the problem of Islamist ideology. The reference to the Bataclan really tipped him over the edge as he his brain was going "this has nothing to do with Islam and therefore nothing to do with the Bataclan". He was much happier to accept the reference to the Admiral Duncan pub bombing

This is exactly what happened. One can see why he got so frustrated. We see this all the time on here, even feminists, drop the stance when faced with sexism in Islam, they cant cope with it and would always drop the principle they like to think they hold when faced with it I have seen posters do it on here.

I have seen posters argue and argue for pages about stances on feminism, but when Boys are chosen to do something, they don't question it or bother with it - if Islam says its so, suddenly its perfectly understandable and OK it beggars belief.

Elinor: as he seeks to portray himself as a professional commentator, yes, I would expect him to have more self control.

If I am mistaken and he was actually connected to someone who was killed or injured then Sky were irresponsible in dragging him in to talk about the murders and he was foolish to be persuaded.

I would describe any professional commentator as 'childish' who behaved like a child and I am defining 'childish' in this context- running off when he didn't feel things were going his way.

I did notice that he seemed to take longer than necessary in standing up and going. A cynic might reasonably suggest that he hoped to be persuaded to stay.

This was a homophobic attack carried out by a terrorist in the name of Islamic state.
Clearly this is unpalatable and truly disgusting but I don't see how it can be described otherwise. Obviously all Muslims aren't guilty of supporting this type of action!
I feel sorry for Owen Jones though.

I think he was just detaching himself from his microphone actually.

Christina, liberals often call terrorists mad or lunatics rather than identify them with a cause. This is to avoid offence to Islam.

If indeed lone gunmen are in fact rational, methodical and driven by beliefs other than unfocused violence or madness, then are we allowed to identify the Muslim faith as the source?

'they aren't Muslims, they're random nutters' is the usual liberal cry following events like these.

But that is such a 'masculine' model of professionalism. Perhaps professionalism is also about interviewers showing respect to interviewees, giving them space to express their viewpoint, understanding that when people with who you feel a close affinity are massacred for being out, and for enjoying themselves - you want that prejudice and discrimination to be acknowledged.

Would you expect a Jewish person to remain calm and professional in conversation with a panel of Holocaust deniers. Or dismiss them as being 'emotional'?

I watched this live and admit that I did not initially know he was gay. Before a word was spoken, I asked somebody what was wrong with him because of the look on his face. He was too upset from the start and shouldn't have been used as a commentator.
Julia double barrelled is one of the most annoying people on the planet.

Owen was given respect and given a long time to talk at the beginning, did you miss that part of the clip?

Not all killers are mad. It's too easy to claim they are.

He was right they tried to silence him and I don't understand why ?

I can't imagine anything worse than being stuck next to Julia Hartley Brewer.