To think Owen Jones is childish

[sandrabedminster]

Owen Jones storms off sky news

I don't even get what his issue is, he's invited on to discuss the headlines and then runs off as he doesn't like how much attention the biggest story is getting.

Robins, I'm not over-simplifying in the slightest. People cited spurious UK travel warnings against travel to a couple of US states on the basis of some 'bathroom laws' (laws supported by many on this site from a feminist perspective) as evidence that the murderous homophobia in this case is a very generalised and inexplicable thing found all across society in America.

On the other hand, we have somehow NOT managed to warn travellers to Qatar that if they get raped they will be charged with adultery.

Useless idiots everywhere.

I watched sky news. I saw him walk off. I accept he was angry but he came on angry. He's always angry. He was like this before ranting about Murdoch on sky news. I'm no fan of Murdoch but ffs. He wasn't booked again for months, with luck after this he won't be booked for years.
I don't like him, not because he's gay, or remainer or pink with purple spots but because if you don't agree with him he sulks and moans.
The others weren't saying this wasn't a homophobic attack, they'd already accepted that. They were referring to this being Americas Bataclan, which was the newspaper headline, and OJ got cross that they were expanding the debate.

I don't think he was childish, no. I watched the interview, it was really bad how the other 2 were trying to steer the focus away from the homophobic aspect and generalise it as a terrorist attack, when it was both.

I understand his frustration. He was being shut down on all sides, he even tried to stop them saying the man was a lunatic rather than a homophobe (as though you'd have to be mad to be homophobic, which is definitely not the case) and was told by the woman that she could choose her own words, thanks. Well yes you can, but if someone suggests that they're inappropriate for a reasonably good reason, then it would be polite to listen! not continue to talk over that person.

Yes Owen also talked over them, because he couldn't believe what they were trying to do.

Anyway, no he wasn't childish, he was upset and incredibly frustrated with the way it was all going.

I see a couple of comments about the UK govt issuing a travel warning for LGBT people travelling to the US. This doesn't appear on www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/usa (though the Orlando shootings do) so perhaps a link would be useful. Certainly gay members of my family have visited the US quite regularly without being unwelcome. It would be a shame if the generally welcoming US were tarred as homophobic (as it is with muslims being tarred as terrorists).

Of course, there is homophobia in the US (and probably more than here), but that shouldn't be a barrier to travel.

I took a look on FB and there is now a witch hunt underway. The witch hunters didn't post the whole interview or watch all of it. Hurt people using bad experiences in their own life and using a horrific experience of others in Orlando to gain sympathy or power over others in debate.

Oh for goodness sake, of course you can visit the USA. If you can name a nation with full acceptance of all minorities and no bigotry or prejudice in evidence then do tell us where this liberal haven is.

I'm guessing your kids want to visit Disney land, not the Ozarks or the Louisiana swamps.

sussexman link - www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/usa/local-laws-and-customs

You are simplifying, though, mama. It's also simplifying to come out with 'home come we don't warn people about Qatar, huh?'

Obviously, we should. And obviously, had this attack been on women, people would have been falling over themselves in exactly the same way, to pretend it wasn't gender-related but related to Islam.

But pretending this one man personifies ISIS, while a Christian gunman is a 'lone gunman,' is the reaction either of someone who isn't terribly bright, or of someone who believes everything the Daily Mail peddles. Which is not dissimilar to the first thing, really.

I'm not an OJ fan but the dissembling WRT this being a gay hate crime was astonishing.

sussexman: it;s linked @ local laws & customs www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/usa/local-laws-and-customs

I think it would be good to acknowledge the degree of homophobia that exists in the UK. It is stronger in traditionally 'Christian' areas of the country. Scottish islands. Northern Ireland. Bakers who refused to make a cake to celebrate a gay couple's relationship. Two men who were refused a shared room at a B and B. The pressure on professional sports people to keep quiet about their sexuality. Repeated emphasis by politicians on the UK being a Christian country - with Bibles given to ever school and mainly Christian acts of worship being compulsory - when parts of the Old Testament specifically declare that homosexuality is sinful. The fact that practising clerics in the state Church - the Church of England - are not free to love and marry a same sex partner.

In this country we have normalised this prejudice so much that many of us don't see it. Very much as the Sky presenters didn't see what happened in Orlando as a homophobic attack.

Which Muslim countries are safe for LGBT visitors just now?

Owen was treated disgustingly. Their approach to such a horrific hate crime was reductive and missed fundamental points - and emotion. I totally understand why he became so incensed.

I don't like oj much but he was ganged up on and silenced when trying to raise a salient point. I'm not sure what to make of him walking out it did look a bit unprofessional (maybe even childish) BUT I'm not sure I would have sat through the gas lighting and grilling and patronising crap of the other two if I'd been there.

There were two not entirely unrelated issues to discuss, the blatant homophobic attack and the speculation it's claimed it was undertaken in the name of Islam. The presenters washed over the first to get to the sensational second point re:isis

When your community is attacked you do feel protective of it and I'm not sure whether oj was trying to make this a single issue event or just wasn't given the opportunity to articulate further the interconnectivity of the two key elements of the attack. I don't think in this particular instance homophobia can be discussed in isolation but it definitely should be discussed and not just in relation to this particular event.

It is my opinion that he is a dreadful little man and he behaved in a way that was consistent with that.

I hope this marks the end of the media giving houseroom to his 'cleverest boy in the sixth form' badly formed, tunnel visioned and rather screechy views.

Unlikely though.

The USA is vast. Texas alone is five times the size of the UK. Two states have bathroom laws. Comparing that to countries where you can be arrested for being raped is just logical gymnastics.

The USA is the birthplace and spiritual home of transactivism. It's the birthplace of the gay rights movement. It's the home of all the 'gayest places in the world' . It's pretty much an entire continent and it's current president is a poster boy for liberal values.

If Trump gets in, there may be scary changes afoot. But right now, you are no more at risk across the vast expanse that is the USA than you would be in Liverpool. And significantly less so than in Baghdad.

I'm not the biggest fan of his but he stood up for his principles.
They'll not have him back on doing the paper reviews again I would imagine.

exactly what louisagradgrind said, word for word!

morris - I don't think it is? People seem to think 'comparing' means 'saying these two things are exactly the same'. I don't think it does.

I wouldn't travel to many places in the world, because I wouldn't feel safe. That includes parts of the US (and not because of bathroom laws).

It's not to say that the US is identical to Iran or Saudi Arabia or wherever.

But it seems rather crass, when 50 people have just been murdered, to be mocking someone for feeling frightened.

Sometimes I agree with Owen Jones, other times he absolutely infuriates me but I don't think he was childish here. It was a hate crime against gay people and they were trying to minimise that.