To timidly suggest that Nigel Farage is not a racist

[Millyonthefloss]

Can I just start by saying that I am not a racist. Thanks.

This is my AIBU.

Lots of people on mumsnet say Farage is a racist.

But this is what I think.

He is a geezer. He is a city boy. He smokes. He wears dodgy coats. He looks weird. He says non PC things, like my FIL does. He doesn't like overcrowding and change.

But I am beginning to think that he is not a racist.

What he is in fact is a man with an absolute obsession with British parliamentary democracy and an absolute hatred of EU waste, extravagance and unaccountability. He is totally obsessed with getting the UK out of the EU and independent again.

He is enraged and infuriated by the wasteful things the EU does like moving the EU Parliament from Strasbourg to Brussels all the time and wasting millions and millions of British taxpayers money that could be spent in his beloved UK.

I don't even think he is that interested in immigration.

But he is so obsessed with his aim of UK independence that he will work with anyone. So when free movement of labour became the big issue - years after he started his campaigns - he was willing to embrace it. And there have therefore been racists in UKIP. He is not choosy.

But I don't think Farage himself is a racist.

He seems to be genuinely delighted now that he can stand on a platform with Kwasi Kwateng or Frank Field.

He does his weird grin when he is with people like them.

All he wants is UK independence.

What do you think? AIBU?

Roses yes I don't think he likes them either, or the Greeks. His acceptable face of racism comes across (to me at least) as being rather northern European Aryan tbh.

jean I don't think people do agree with UKIP in cart and horse scenario., The truth is so many peoples lives have been affected by immigration, and UKIP have been the only party to speak out for them.

I don't see why people find this so hard to understand. If other parties had done their job, and listened to people on their doors steps UKIP would be nothing.

Sorry - acceptable face of *immigration"

Do you think its racism or more a case of the wealth of the countries he talks about?

I want to hate him but actually find when I listen he is quite likeable and sensible. Bit like Boris Johnson.

I got as far as that. THIS is what makes them both really dangerous, actually. Because so much of what comes out of their mouths is simply BS, twisted statistics, straight out lies. Boris Johnson and Farage both spout the most outrageous, straight out lies and misinformation while coming across all "likeable" and relatable. These two posturing as anti "the establishment" and "the elite" would be laughable if it wasn't so utterly cynical.
I agree that Farage's obsession is real and he will say anything to get people to vote leave. Actually, most of Leave are like that. Suddenly all anti TTIP, pro NHS, throwing around election promises that aren't remotely in their gift. It's about workers' wages in one sentence, then anti regulation in the next (those pesky environmental laws and workers' rights, tsk tsk). But that doesn't mean what he says will not be picked up by the worst kind of xenophobes. The nasty, "what do I get out of this", isolationist Little England tone of the Leavers I hear is so depressing. Thinking about the boost to the Right and the people who will be in charge of the country if the vote is "out" honestly scares me.

Johnson is an opportunist who will happily endorse the exact opposite of what he's said in the past if it suits his ends. Both are truly dangerous demagogues.

Since immigrants from the EU are, for the most part, white I don't think you can really call him a racist. Xenophobic, possibly, but not racist.

Aaaarrrgghh, this boils my blood! Your race is not limited to the colour of your skin! Prime mega great big overwhelming example from history: JEWS ARE WHITE!!!

someone who isn't racists does not ally themselves with far-right racist groups: www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jun/18/nigel-farage-far-right-european-parliament

and someone who isn't sexit doesn't want to turn the clock back on women's rights: www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/10741121/Nick-Clegg-v-Nigel-Farage-Hey-ladies-Nigel-Farages-Ukip-wants-to-turn-the-clock-back-for-womens-rights.-Fact.html
and a public school boy who became a commodities broker is not 'an ordinary geezer'

If other parties had done their job, and listened to people on their doors steps UKIP would be nothing.

Well I agree with you there. Sadly UKIP have capitalised on other parties' reluctance to discuss immigration. Of course UKIP have done more than discuss they've gladly stoked people's fears but yes, the other parties definitely missed a trick.

That's a really good question and I agree that does have something to do with it, yes, but the assumption based on the skin colour seems to me to be the biggest factor. Therefore it's racist - but I realise we may never agree :)

Robertsons jams made the badges and children collected them with no thought to any association with people of Afro Caribbean origin. And they were racist .

I have a disabled child but I wouldn't dream of pulling a friend up if they said the r word without a bad intent. They are just blinkered, and I think I would look at intention rather than words.

But then I am not racist. I grew up listening to enough genuine racists in Brixton making comments about my step father that I've grown a very thick skin.

Note: not all Jews, not exclusively white, but the Jewish race at the turn of the century had no country of origin so no basis to call their discrimination xenophobia. They were a race; a group of people with a shared heritage. Their persecution was racism. 100%. No questions. Racism.

and, Millyonthefloss, I bet you are white. And I bet you are racist

I think the absolutely beauty of this country is its multicultural. My child will grow up with friends whose families originate from many parts of the world and I think that's fantastic

I agree but having many cultures and nationalities is different to have one other.

Ie in DD school we have American, Italian, polish, Portuguese, Spanish, french etc. We are also part Italian/German British. I love hearing the different languages walking through the playground but the main nationality as it should be is British.

There are school round here though with no mix and no predominant British cohort, rather largely EE. That isn't MIX is it.

You talk of stoking fears, but some peoples lives have been adversely affected, so the fear, is already there.

Booming sorry, in light of you saying you're definitely NOT racist, could you kindly explain your statement further up about Romanians regularly shitting in the street? Please and thank you.

I want to hate him but actually find when I listen he is quite likeable and sensible. Bit like Boris Johnson.

'Bad guys' are not ever likeable are they? Or charismatic?

I think it has everything to do with it dragon.

Yes but they've also stoked the fear of Mr and Mrs White English Couple, living in the whitest village, in the whitest county.

Redtoothbrush

I agree that Farage is a knob.

I'm not arguing about that. That would be a weird AIBU and rather knobbist.

I'm Welsh, I'll never support England during sporting events. Or France, Poland, Russia, Australia...... Oh good lord, I'm as big of a racist as Andy Murray .

No bran that would make you a xenophob not a racist.

He blames everything he can on those coming into the country from overseas.

He's a racist.

He also happens to be an arsehole, a pillock, a lying frog faced obsequious little turd and a complete and utter twunt of the highest order.

Those of you saying he spouts figures that are unsubstantiated what about Gideon Osborne and the lie we will be £4K worst off by 2030. When even on his bullshit figures written on the back of an old envelope we'd be £4K less well off than we might be but we'd still have more money than now. He won't change that lie. Given that his last few budgets have unraveled in months do you honestly trust his projections for 14 yrs time.
David(pigfucker) Cameron says WW3 and global recession causing a loss of 800k jobs yet even on his figures growth is down 0.1% for two quarters we didn't lose the GDP he's projecting during the 1929 recession or the 2008 one. These were Andrew Neills figures and he does his research.
If anyone is spouting bullshit it's the remain side. They've rolled out Major and Blair, dumb and dumber. One took us into the ERM and the other should be indicted on war crimes.
BoJo and Farage don't seem so bad in that company.

Actually although the comment about the Romanian family was not well put, Sheffield City Council did put out an information pack for the Romanian (mainly Roma) families who live in Page Hall because of the terrible problems there and it did include a section about not defecating or urinating in the street as that is a problem. Also having sex in public.

The main complaints about that came from the local Pakistani community who mobilised quite effectively to get the council to take action.

Y,y squoosh...I live in Devon which is still predominantly white and yet they're some of the loudest who are crying "close our borders! Let's look after British born!"

I hear it on the bus every day.

He may be your Bad Guy because he speaks out about issues that have affected the citizens of this country but at the other end you have Labour MP like Frank Field also begging us to vote leave to help the poor.

I would say if Frank F had taken over after Blair we wouldn't have any of these problems.

The poor of the UK have been submerged under the poor from very poor EE countries. Smary rich politicians like Blair and Brown sniggering in the face of those poor the very party supposed to represent them, has turned people to UKIP.