To timidly suggest that Nigel Farage is not a racist

[Millyonthefloss]

Can I just start by saying that I am not a racist. Thanks.

This is my AIBU.

Lots of people on mumsnet say Farage is a racist.

But this is what I think.

He is a geezer. He is a city boy. He smokes. He wears dodgy coats. He looks weird. He says non PC things, like my FIL does. He doesn't like overcrowding and change.

But I am beginning to think that he is not a racist.

What he is in fact is a man with an absolute obsession with British parliamentary democracy and an absolute hatred of EU waste, extravagance and unaccountability. He is totally obsessed with getting the UK out of the EU and independent again.

He is enraged and infuriated by the wasteful things the EU does like moving the EU Parliament from Strasbourg to Brussels all the time and wasting millions and millions of British taxpayers money that could be spent in his beloved UK.

I don't even think he is that interested in immigration.

But he is so obsessed with his aim of UK independence that he will work with anyone. So when free movement of labour became the big issue - years after he started his campaigns - he was willing to embrace it. And there have therefore been racists in UKIP. He is not choosy.

But I don't think Farage himself is a racist.

He seems to be genuinely delighted now that he can stand on a platform with Kwasi Kwateng or Frank Field.

He does his weird grin when he is with people like them.

All he wants is UK independence.

What do you think? AIBU?

metal

I never used those words and never used them as a child nor did anyone in my family and we would have and I would have been swiftly told off for using them.

I am more outraged by hypocrisy.

What, like publicly denouncing tax avoidance, then hiring a tax advisor to set up private companies and trust funds to avoid tax?

Katie, I don't believe that being older than someone entitles you to super special respect and ignore anything that is 'un pc', just because they have a few years on me. Ironic that you tell me off for 'pulling someone up' on something by doing the exact same to me. Or are you a 'do as I say not as I do' person (since you like sayings).

I am trans. If a beery bloke said something 'un PC (you mean offensive)' to me about me being trans, I would think they had an issue with trans people.

Yes that would be unkind and rude to you. So it would be a sign of a bad person.

But if an old lady said to her friends in a non-hating way. I love that Eddie Izzard, you know the one, the "insert offensive word for being trans" then that would be ignorance

To me.

I respect the fact that your standards are higher and I think in an ideal world older people should get lessons in modern manners from young people. Both sides would enjoy it.

Some of my family use racist language. Most have never spoken to a black or Aisan person except in some sort of professional capacity (the "Paki" doctor, the coloured nurse). Certainly not socially: everyone where they live is white, all their friends and neighbours are white. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't behave badly to a person just because they weren't white. None of them have said anything negative about my son's girlfriend at Uni being Asian.

But I pull them up on the racist language every single time, I don't care how old they are or what their excuse is. For a start I don't want my kids hearing it. They probably think I'm being stupid and "politically correct" but they do comply.

If Farage was NONE OF THE ABOVE he would distance himself from the party whose members have said such revolting comments.

That is a very interesting comment.

He does sack them. So I guess that is distancing himself from them. But he can't not have UKIP around him. He could not have got a stab at UK indepence on his own.

So what about someone like Baroness Jenny Jones of the Green party who is associating with Nigel Farage in being part of the Leave campaign. Is she now a racist by association?

But I pull them up on the racist language every single time, I don't care how old they are or what their excuse is. For a start I don't want my kids hearing it. They probably think I'm being stupid and "politically correct" but they do comply.

I admire you for doing that. I will try to start doing it myself.

It's interesting to me, as a non white foreigner, all this hullabaloo and indignation at the brexit campaign, labelling anyone who thinks we should leave as racist. Before I came here, on a fiance visa, in 2004, I had to go through vetting, interviews at the UK embassy, background checks and provide proof I could financilly support myself for a year as I wouldn't be allowed to work or claim benefits. I have never claimed any benefits at all. I didn't resent having the vetting process. I understand that if you have a 1 bedroom flar with 1 toilet you can't suddenly have 100 people move in. It's a simplified analogy because people seem to have trouble understanding the concept. My husband is white and finds it amusing that, in his workplace the non whites don't think Farage is racist but the white people do. It's hilarious. I have encountered racism in this country... I can spot them very easily. My two cents worth.......

flar=flat

Jenny Jones of the Green Party who is in Leave.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/08/eu-reform-green-brexit

Is she racist for joining a group with Nigel Farage?

So what about someone like Baroness Jenny Jones of the Green party who is associating with Nigel Farage in being part of the Leave campaign. Is she now a racist by association?

She's not actually associating with Nigel Farage, as he's not officially part of the Vote Leave organisation with Boris, Gove and Baroness Jones. He's associated with another couple of leave groups, as the main one believed he was too toxic to have as a spokesman (hence Vote Leave throwing a tantrum that he was picked instead of Boris or Gove for the ITV debate with Cameron).

There are a whole host of people on the Leave side. They're grouping together for political expediency. No it does not make her a racist.

*I am more outraged by hypocrisy.

What, like publicly denouncing tax avoidance, then hiring a tax advisor to set up private companies and trust funds to avoid tax?*

I'm not here to defend Farage's general character.

There are a whole host of people on the Leave side. They're grouping together for political expediency. No it does not make her a racist.

I agree.

My argument is that Nigel Farage's associates over the years have been for political expediency. She is only interested in leaving the EU for Green reasons. He is only interested in leaving the EU for sovereignty reasons.

According to the liberal left I am a racist because I back Britex. I can assure you I'm not, in fact immigration is not the reason I want to leave the EU, but it suits the socialist agenda to label someone like me a racist because they think it will stop me in my tracks and render me speechless.

I don't think Nigel Farage is a racist but again it suits the political agenda to label him such so that he becomes a figure of ridicule and hatred. I could, however, wish that he would stop using immigration as the foundation of his argument when there are so many other reasons he could elaborate on.

They're grouping together for political expediency.

Like Cameron and Harman.

My husband is white and finds it amusing that, in his workplace the non whites don't think Farage is racist but the white people do.

Nottstrinishar73 I have noticed that too.

Why do you think it is?

Agree that he's not a racist. Unfortunately that word has become the catch-all insult for lazy people to throw at others who don't share their views. 'Immigrants' are not a race - they are a diverse group of people of many nationalities and religions. Perhaps people should look the word up in a dictionary before throwing it around with such abandon.

I don't think Nigel Farage is a racist but again it suits the political agenda to label him such so that he becomes a figure of ridicule and hatred. I could, however, wish that he would stop using immigration as the foundation of his argument when there are so many other reasons he could elaborate on.

I know. He is very knowledgeable about the trade benefits of Brexit and the myths about tariffs and barriers etc. He has barrowboy instincts having been a trader. He should push that more. He can explain the myths about tariffs clearly in 30 seconds. He seems to know more about trade than the Tories.

Whether he is racist or not is purely academic. He is nonetheless a deeply unpleasant 'geezer' as you put it, as well as an odious individual.

According to the liberal left I am a racist because I back Britex

Do you think that will change now Dennis Skinner and John Mann have joined?

Could be any or all of several reasons. Perhaps they think what he says may cause offense and, as they are also white, they don't want anyone to view them the same so they have a knee jerk reaction. Perhaps, being aware of past issues with race (slavery, indentured servitude etc) they are over compensating by being indignant on behalf of non whites. Perhaps they don't know or understand what true racism is. Or some of them are just obsessed with political correctness or jumping on whatever is the newest social issue so they can feel virtuous and modern. Some may even be closeted racists that protest too much that they aren't. Real racism is more insidious and cunningly disguised. Only victims of it can easily recognise it.

There is a river of blood between being nonracist and being anti-racist. And while the screams of ethnic minorities and other marginalized groups in this country have been drowned out by a cacophony of complicity and complacency, we are expected either to not grasp that fact or to ignore the pervasiveness of its existence.

This is the state of this twisted country and Nigel Farage is an ugly Racist.
I know what racism is because I have lived with it .

If I was running the Leave campaign I would advise Nigel Farage to disband UKIP to disassociate himself from any taint of racism.

He and Carswell could be independents.

Real racism is more insidious and cunningly disguised.

Yes 'real' racism can be cunningly disguised. But 'real' racism can also be pretty blatant.