To timidly suggest that Nigel Farage is not a racist

[Millyonthefloss]

Can I just start by saying that I am not a racist. Thanks.

This is my AIBU.

Lots of people on mumsnet say Farage is a racist.

But this is what I think.

He is a geezer. He is a city boy. He smokes. He wears dodgy coats. He looks weird. He says non PC things, like my FIL does. He doesn't like overcrowding and change.

But I am beginning to think that he is not a racist.

What he is in fact is a man with an absolute obsession with British parliamentary democracy and an absolute hatred of EU waste, extravagance and unaccountability. He is totally obsessed with getting the UK out of the EU and independent again.

He is enraged and infuriated by the wasteful things the EU does like moving the EU Parliament from Strasbourg to Brussels all the time and wasting millions and millions of British taxpayers money that could be spent in his beloved UK.

I don't even think he is that interested in immigration.

But he is so obsessed with his aim of UK independence that he will work with anyone. So when free movement of labour became the big issue - years after he started his campaigns - he was willing to embrace it. And there have therefore been racists in UKIP. He is not choosy.

But I don't think Farage himself is a racist.

He seems to be genuinely delighted now that he can stand on a platform with Kwasi Kwateng or Frank Field.

He does his weird grin when he is with people like them.

All he wants is UK independence.

What do you think? AIBU?

ego where is this hostility?

The only hostility I heard of was this:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24909979

Tensions between local people and Roma migrants could escalate into rioting unless action is taken to improve integration, David Blunkett has warned.His concerns centre on the Page Hall area of Sheffield, where Roma migrants from Slovakia have set up home.

But he also accused the government of "burying their head in the sand" over the scale of Roma settlement in the UK.
In an interview with BBC Radio Sheffield, he said the Roma community had to make more of an effort to fit in with British culture.
"We have got to change the behaviour and the culture of the incoming community, the Roma community, because there's going to be an explosion otherwise. We all know that."

He called on the Roma community in Page Hall to change aspects of their "behaviour", such as congregating on the streets on summer evenings and dumping litter, which he said was "aggravating" local people.

"We've got to be tough and robust in saying to people you are not in a downtrodden village or woodland, because many of them don't even live in areas where there are toilets or refuse collection facilities. You are not there any more, you are here - and you've got to adhere to our standards, and to our way of behaving, and if you do then you'll get a welcome and people will support you."

I think generally you will find UK is a brilliant place for people of many cultures to live along side each other, which is why its sad, the public has been pushed too far by the mass immigration from the EU. Many communities have spoken out with joy about the liberal and open society we have here.

millyonthe floss, you asked if he was a racist. some of us pointed out some of the things he's said that ARE racist. He also fronts up a party whose members have made racist, misognist and homophobic comments.

If Farage was NONE OF THE ABOVE he would distance himself from the party whose members have said such revolting comments.

As for not fitting in with the mumsnet way what is that? I'm relatively new so curious.

NF is a racist, UKIP are racist but NF is clever as he knows how to fool a lot of people into thinking he's not a fucking racist in order to get votes. This makes me very very scared.

Tinkly, if you ever did consider it again, perhaps find a free online Welsh course online and learn together? No one would expect fluency, that comes later through integration .

For example, if a beery bloke says something un PC down the pub I do not take offence.

I think younger people do not really get that.

You mean you lack a backbone to challenge it, whereas a young person might?

I was mightly impressed one night when DH and I were in a Indian restaurant and an older guy came in and 'jokingly' started making racist comments to the staff whilst collecting his takeaway. A group of teenagers went up to him and asked him to apologise as he was out of line and it was disrespectful. You'd normally expect the stereotype of unruly and disrespectful drunken young people. We thought it would kick off, but they were ever so polite and reasonable. It shut him up. When the older man left after getting his takeaway, everyone cheered.

Age is no excuse for being a bigot. There are lots of older people who manage not to be.

BranTri

I hate it when people play the generation card to excuse 'un-pc' language.

That is a bit harsh, societal norms change but the attitudes of people take longer. For instance when I was born it was illegal to be a homosexual and because of this (clearly wrongly) homosexuals were demonised as criminals. Just because overnight it no longer becomes an offence doesn't mean that peoples attitudes will also follow suit. Hence the generational thing. If you ask the majority of the Older generation they will still view homosexuality in a negative light whereas the youngsters today don't bat an eyelid and think it is pretty cool.

Kerry Smith called gay people “fucking disgusting old poofters” and Chinese people as “chinkies”. There's something really quite patronising about thinking it's okay for someone from a working class background to speak like that.

I would make excuses for somebody's language if they came from a background where it was normal.

To be fair, that fits in very nicely with Farage spinning the myth that he's an average guy from an average background. By putting on this mask he knows he'll get an easier ride overall than if he was more honest about his background.

But rascists are in every part, see David Blunketts comments above.

Y

"That's exactly the kind of thing I might think. I would make excuses for somebody's language if they came from a background where it was normal."

Why?

Because my parents were like that maybe. Because I like mixing with all kinds of people and talking to them. Because ignorant people are not bad people.

eatsleep But everyone's first thought is to blame the volume of people, not the funding, not the decision-makers...

And for some reason the left don't make a big deal out of this as part of their argument. Instead they make untrue and damaging claims about lazy British workers and call peope racists for being concerned. Cornerns over sexism tend to get ignored too, if they conflict with religious values.

Both sides of the debate seem like brainwashed cults! Including using dubious "facts" and evidence with questionable methodology. Also, people claiming they are voting "remain" because... look whos on the "leave" side. That is a shit reason! Surely you should base your decision on policies, not personality? There's an element of "who's popular in the playground today" about it all. Arghh, it's just politics though, isn't it? Not getting to the nub of an issue and actually solving it, just an endeless tug-of-war with underhand tactics!

Also, whilst I do have some concerns about immigration and the way it is or isn't managed (especially with regards to integration*), I don't think a points-based system is ok at all. It's basically taking the "human resources" (sorry!) of other countries, in it only for what we can gain. I know there are certain occupation shortages, but we should try our utmost to train people already here (eg. nursing - courses very oversubscibed, we shouldn't need to "import" nurses at this stage in time).

*By "integration" I mean the government actually need to fund evidence-based integration/community cohesion type things, on a large scale. You can't ignor human nature and just chuck culturally diverse people together with few resources and hope they get on.

he'll get an easier ride overall than if he was more honest about his background.

He is a middle class man who went to a private school and worked in the city. And likes beer and village greens and little England. Does he pretend to act or look like anything else?

Younger people don't think being gay is 'cool', like its a trend . It's normal, it has been for many years - it's not 'overnight' now is it? Enough generations have gone by that this sort of language should be pulled up on, it's not 'new' to anyone.

"Because ignorant people are not bad people."

So it's alright to be racist if you're thick?

roarfeckingroar I used to work with him. You're 100% right OP

What is he like?

Well yeah, he pretends to be a maverick who's kicking against the Establishment when in fact he's firmly part of the Establishment.

I'm asian Caribbean living here for 12 years. I don't think he's racist at all. FWIW.

eatsleep But everyone's first thought is to blame the volume of people, not the funding, not the decision-makers...

This sort of comment leads me to think the poster has no grasp of what went on actually.

How could any council respond to funding when such a huge amount of people were suddenly here and many with very diverse needs, including much social service intervention.

So it's alright to be racist if you're thick?

It might be a side effect of being thick. An undesirable side effect.

I'm asian Caribbean living here for 12 years. I don't think he's racist at all. FWIW.

Thank you!!!

If someone uses racist slurs, despite it being widely known that they're racist terms, then that person isn't in-PC - they're racist. You can't excuse it as 'banter' or 'just the way they talk' - they've made a conscious decision to use those words.

My nan used to use terms like wog, coon, chinky and paki. She was racist. Lovely to her family, and a great nan, but with some pretty appalling attitudes to non-white people.

When I was a kid, I used to use insults like flid, mong, spastic, Joey and retarded. As I got older and learnt the origins of those words, and how offensive they are to people with disabilities and their families, I stopped using them. It's not hard.

By continuing to use or justify hateful language, a person is basically saying, "my right to be non-PC is more important than the feelings of minority groups, and I don't care if I'm contributing to a culture that makes it acceptable to mock and discriminate against them".

You sound so schoolmarmish, Bran. Or like my bossy five-year-old.

Your elders don't need to be "pulled up on" their language by you.

Social mores change. Every generation has its zeitgeist, its own absolute truth.

Tolerance should not only be preached, it should be shown.

As my nana would have said, "Pull your head in."

He is a middle class man who went to a private school and worked in the city. And likes beer and village greens and little England. Does he pretend to act or look like anything else?

Well. Yes. You pointed it out in your OP.
The smoking, geezer with the dodgy coat.

YANBU - not a racist.
Nor am I although I have been called one - usually by people who have no idea either what the word means or anything about my life.

It is a power/ control thing - "If I call you a racist then I can't be one" - The Witch Trials of Salem anyone? The Stasi techniques - "if you inform then you are safe" - except you are not because you neighbour will then inform on you. McCarthyism?

In MN land and much of the UK you are a racist if you say someone isn't a racist, if you sit next to a racist, do business with a racist, challenge an accusation of racism... etc.

I will be called a racist for this by some people - as will you OP.