To think the two girls who kidnapped the toddler in primark

[BettyFea]

Should be put away for a long long time?!
It smacks of Venables and Thomson imo. If these two girls planned to kidnap and sexually assault a toddler at the ages they are now, God only knows what kind of monsters they would grow into!

The people who need locking up forever are the people who caused these girls to want to do this. I don't believe they were born like that, something or someone happened to cause it. Yes they need to be detained for the safety of others but they need an awful lot of help, which hopefully they will get but probably not.

Having been abused is not a mental illness though, and there is not an obvious and easy cure. Therapy can make things worse by bringing the memories back and might not be suitable for many years to come.

Gosh is that what they were planning?! How awful.

The girls are sisters and they tried earlier in the day to take another toddler in the same shop

Of course there's a chance that they are too damaged to be rehabilitated. But they're so young that there's a chance they could be. Mary Bell was rehabilitated and never reoffended.

Survivor therapy doesn't have to dwell on the abuse itself. In my experience it was a very small part of the conversation. The therapy focuses on the changes that abuse causes to the survivors and works on minimising the impact.

The lack of availability of survivor counselling is a disgrace. If you need counselling it should be provided, survivors have already suffered enough.

Aren't they sisters, or have I got that wrong?

You'll be sorry you did look the story up - a terrible case. Before I had dc, I'd feel terribly sorry for them and want them therapied up to the nose, now I've got 2 small dc, I want them helped but ultimately I'd like to be sure they will never be in a position to attempt this again.

Is it even possible to rehabilitate a child who kidnaps a toddler having researched child rape? I honestly don't know. This is why I barely let my son out of my sight - it's a scary world we live in.

At their age, I barely knew what rape was. I hate to think what they have been through to be fixated on rape & kidnap fantasies about young children. They are clearly terribly damaged.

Is there a news link? I didn't know they had released more details?

They need a lot of help. What they did was disturbing but locking them away isn't going to solve any of the issues they have. I'm not suggesting they be released but I hope that the right punishment for them involves a lot of the help they need. They're too young to write off as lost causes.

I think with these cases there needs to be more done to evaluate how the care system worked for them and how changes can be made to prevent this happening in the future.

Personally, I think these children should have been given much more help when it was determined they were subject to abuse rather than wait until something like this happens (ie causing harm to themselves or others, minor or otherwise).

Non DM/RedTop linky

I'm not sure if it's possible to actually solve issues like these, Paul, but locking them up at least has the virtue of keeping them off the streets.
I hope it's for a very long time.
Doubt it though, they'll probably be given new identities to keep them "safe", which is slightly ironic really...

Terrible shocking story, wonder how long they will get. There is a bastard being slowly prepared for release later this year who brutally murdered 3 very small children in 1973, when he was in his 20s. So much more life meaning life!

Life should mean life imho, especially cases of murdering children.

I wondered at the time if they'd took her for someone else, a older male perhaps who wanted a small child to sexually abuse, for something in return

To balance out some of the comments - which no one meant to be hurtful 0 can I just point out that thousands of people pass through the awful care system or survive abusive childhoods and grow up to be perfectly normal people.
It can actually give an adult a strong sense of justice.

It's absolutely chilling. I'll leave decisions to qualified psychiatrists though.

Highly disturbing case.

Well said everyoneelsie. Likewise there are cases of children from "normal" families which have gone on to commit atrocious crimes

herecomesthesun Having been abused is not a mental illness though

Doesn't that just show the inadequacy of the current diagnostic (and access to treatment) system? That someone badly damaged by abuse, when it's clear what has affected them, doesn't slot neatly into a category for treatment? Certain symptoms might fit into existing diagnoses such as PTSD, depression, anxiety. But often adult survivors are labelled BPD and blamed for their "chaotic lifestyle" even if they try to access help. The system just does not really deal with childhood abuse or anything that cant be put down to "imbalance of chemicals in the brain" or cured by positive thinking (aka CBT).

I imagine, as usual, the criminals will be protected more than the victims

ODFOD. We have a whole police force and criminal justice system in place to protect victims. It's not enough, admittedly, but that is because no-one wants to pay more tax for them. If you really think criminals are protected more than victims, have a look at the statistics for violent assaults within prisons, and bear in mind that those are the tip of the iceberg due to the no-grassing culture. The only reason we have to put massive security in place for the likes of Thompson, Venables and Maxine Carr is because of the hysteria our wonderful free press is constantly stirring up about them leading vigilantes to think they're being heroic.