To think DH wants to be treated like a child & is not trying to be helpful

[Armywifelife]

This is an argument that is now recurring every month or so and has just happened once again and I'm so sure I'm right.
So I say to dh, watch ds (18 Mo) I need to do housework. To which he replies I will do it, just tell me what needs doing. This response makes me so angry (8 months pregnant right now so that doesn't help) because it's like he can't use his initiative to see for himself. House is far from immaculate right now, dishes to be done, whole kitchen pretty much needs cleaning, bin to take out, dusting, bathrooms need wiping etc etc so it really doesn't take a genius.
If I don't tell him he claims he doesn't know what needs doing which I think is a load of crap. It's his house just as much as mine, it's almost hard to believe he is in a very skilled job that requires a large amount of initiative. He has this time said I am being awful because he's trying to be nice and I'm just having a go at him. Its wound me up more than usual today because I told him everything needs doing but then he says well give me jobs to do and I'll do them is it so hard to just do the fucking washing up off your own back?
He had a very early finish from work and had a 2 hour nap so I really don't think I'm being unreasonable!
But I'm prepared to be told I am and that its my crazy baby brain.
Just to add hes a great dad to ds, does maximum amount he can and never needs me to tell him what to do!

I wonder if this is an option?

Make a list of everything that needs doing, and then divide it in half so that the effort is broadly equal, make sure you include the "thinking and planning" work as one of your jobs.

Be very, very generous when working out the time and effort that these tasks take you, and ensure your partner takes over the equivalent in other tasks.

If your other half is taking the P, he'll stop leaving the "thinking" to you sharpish, I reckon.

And if he is genuinely oblivious to what needs doing, you'll have given yourself enough "credit" for doing the thinking work so that you will feel the division of work is fair.

(in an ideal world this wouldn't need to be done though)

Goingtobeawesome- its not doing housework that he thinks is nice, his argument is that he doesn't want me to do any of it so I can rest ( we live abroad and have for 3 years, and I can't work here so ive always thought the least could do is take care of housework. Obviously since ds came along he's never expected me to do it all) but he needs me to tell him what needs doing.

Carryam- apologies, I won't joke about sticker charts any more.

Vague- thank you for that, interesting read!

Littlelion- I had a feeling that would happen here too and felt like it had started with ds so I backed off so he could figure it out and he needs no help from me in that area now.

Pop- can't help but laugh at his PA meltdown maybe if I instruct too much he will get the point and learn to look himself? Either that or id have a lovely perfectly clean house for a change

Fuck that. Thinking about what needs to be done and allocating tasks is already a big part of the work.

He holds down a job and generally manages to function in life? But can sit there, stare at a pile of dirty dishes and it really doesn't occur to them that there won't be Sparkly the Cleaning Fairy zooming in? And if he would live alone, does he claim he would not be able to figure it out?

I used to have this argument regularly with DH. He used to say just tell me what to do and I will do it. Arghhh!! Why is it my job to identify what needs doing and be in charge of all the housework, and then be grateful that you help when asked, like I am really lucky...rant!!

Then we moved on to the next stage where he did see what needs doing but would say "I have emptied the bin for you" and expect praise. You didn't do it for me!!

Now we seem to rub along quite nicely and he does do things and I do things and we both do what needs doing as and when. We also both have separate jobs which we naturally gravitated to e.g. he mows the lawn, sets the dishwasher (he is last to bed), does washing when he runs out of sports wear, I do the ironing as it makes his back bad, unload the dishwasher as I am first up, etc. Now we joke "thats not my department", or "that falls under your job description" etc.

You need to train him up. It takes a while, many men (DH included) see themselves as married bachelors. Start with a list of things you would like him to do, and once he has mastered that you can move on to the next stage! Sorry if I am being patronising to men, but this is how it has worked out for us, and we have a pretty good system now.

I would go away for a weekend and then leave him to it.
Leave him with your DC, with the mess in the rooms, the washing that needs to be done.
Tell him you expect that things will be tidy when you come back because he is here to HELP, it's his responsibility too (therefore he should know what needs doing).

I have an issue with telling am an what to do or do a list of what needs doing. It's the fact that it puts them still in the place of child when they should be treated and acting as an adult.
Doing more of the treating them like a child won't help. It will reinforce the 'I don't need to do anything until she tells me to do so. And then I can moan about it too, just like I was doing as a child'

BeautyQueen, you don't need to be taught to do housework in order to do housework. Surely it's just common sense.
Not being bothered by mess is another thing. Everyone has different standards which is fine.

OP, like many other women I understand the frustration. I don't want to be thinking for him as well as everything else...

YY to training him.
And unfortunately it takes time. And if you lapse and start treating them like a kid again, it's easy to go rigt back to the starting point too.

I used to have this with STBXH all the time. He would say 'Just tell me what needs doing!' and to begin with, I did just that. Then half the time they wouldn't get done because he 'forgot'. Then it became 'Just tell me what needs doing!' followed by my reply of 'We've lived in this house the same amount of time, you're an adult, why do you need me to keep telling you?' , which then resulted in his 'hurt face' and a muttered 'I was only trying to help'. He also claimed he 'didn't see' the mess.

Surprisingly though, since I've told him that I want to separate, he has managed to identify and complete all these tasks all on his own. Go figure.

When I taxed him on this, and told him that, rather than 'pleasing' me enough to take him back, it actually made me angry that he'd been pulling this shit for 12 years, he admitted that he didn't think it was important enough for him to remember, as he knew I was there to pick up the slack.

Which leads me to believe that all this 'I don't see it'/'I forgot' is all just bullshit. If someone can remember how to wash themselves, how to do their hobby, how to do their job, they can bloody well remember how to put on a load of washing, or make the kids' lunches, or tidy mess up. The fact is, they're choosing not to.

Ah yes, piddley, the old 'I've done x, y and x for you' chestnut. Dh made the mistake of saying that to me a few days ago. I'm pregnant and hormonal too, but I don't think he expected my response: "You've done nothing for me! We both live here! It's not my job to do it! Stop bloody expecting praise for doing something that benefits us equally!" He had the good sense to correct himself, apologise, smile coyly and back away...

My DH can be like this. I really don't think he processes piles of junk as mess. Or crumbs all over the kitchen side. I've lost track of the amount of time I've said 'I've left a cloth by the sink, please wipe the surfaces down when you've finished' only to walk in to find crumbs everywhere and DH looking puzzled as to how his sandwich making may have caused them. Tbf he is very good at stacking the dishwasher (not checking that things are clean before he puts them in cupboards though ) and will run a Hoover around things about without being asked on occasion.

From your op, I don't see that dh wants to be a child, and actually I think he is trying to be helpful.

In asking you what needs doing, he's asking what would you like him to do first. IE kitchen, bathroom etc. He's not refusing to do it. You probably have a system of doing things, so he wants to fit in with this.

Also, different people perceive cleaning differently. My dh is a clean-as-you-go-along person, and I'm a clean--everything-at-the-end person. Consequently, I can sit in a mess, and then have a blitz, whilst a book out of place irritates him.

Also, dh can 'see' cleaning jobs that I don't even notice (or care about). As in say, we all have different preceptions.

No-one needs to be able to 'see' what needs doing, they just need to know what the daily, weekly and less frequent tasks are and whether they've been done yet.

I came to the conclusion that dh and I look at the tasks that need doing in different ways.
If there are dirty dishes on the side, I will empty the dishwasher, load up the dirties and keep the side clean. I don't like them building up.
Dh sees this as wasted effort and will only reload when there's enough built up to make more than a full load.
I like to keep the laundry basket not overflowing so will do one or two washes each day. He'd do a once a week blitz, the same with tidying up etc.
So the net result is that I do the vast majority of stuff as I don't like it to get too bad. If it was all up to him, stuff would still get done, but much less frequently and in big blitzes.
I've had the same conversation with him as you have and I think as far as my dh was concerned, he was asking as he didn't consider any of the domestic stuff to be bad enough to worry about yet.

Tell him to do what thousands of women do, ask the bloody internet. Unfuck your habitat or any of about a million sites.

No, OP, you shouldn't have to point out what needs doing and it must be so fucking frustrating. But, and its a very big but (snigger), I would advise you turn his willingness to your advantage and say that x, y or z needs doing increasingly frequently. Turn this to your advantage!

I'd far rather mind a little one than do chores. slattern

Not my DH but my DD's are so annoying for this!
I'm like how can you not see it? Haha

Make him make the list. Get him to walk round the house with pen and paper and the instruction, "Imagine you are paying a cleaner £X per hour (instead of expecting your wife to do it for nothing)- what would you want done"
or alternatively"Imagine you were going to be fired from your very important paid man job if this house wasn't clean. What would you do?"

Just noticed your username. If your DH is away on weekend exercises or deployment, and the sergeant major or commanding officer or whoever says, "Right you 'orrible little men, this Nissen hut is a shit tip. You have twenty minutes to sort it out or you'll be made to sweep up all the sand on this desert base with a dustpan and toothbrush" would he have the nerve to ask what needs doing?

powershower that is genius. Absolute genius.

It might be too late for me & DH, but 10 years ago that would have been perfect.

Just buy him a copy of "wifework"...

Tatiana, I disagree somewhat. Part of it is common sense (which not everyone seems to have!), but I do think some people need to be taught.
There was a thread in here a couple of years back on which posters were describing how they didn't know even the basics of housework and housekeeping when they first moved out. There were people who didn't know how to do a load of washing, others didn't even consider that sinks might need wiping down once in a while.

piddley I so get the rage when mine does this. AIBU to say I want to snarkily offer him a medal?!

OP, mine is the same, holds down a good job, has to use his initiative all the time, yet faced with the weekly chore of putting out the bins invariably asks 'Which ones?'. I don't fucking know, look at the chart on the fridge where I look if I can't remember!!

Narcissism much?

I have fifty years of DH and male DC, they have a different perception with regards to housework. I see a picture with dust on it that needs dusting, they see a dusty picture. Women want 40 hours a week before declaring the house is clean. Men look at house and see 20 hours cleaning.

Its called personal preference. Get down on your knees and worship god that you have a DH who will clean things he thinks is already clean.

It takes 60 secs to say " run a hover over the carpet,, empty the bins, wash ALL dishes etc etc" End of. Sorted, everyone happy.

Why is feminism so blinkered? We are ALL different!

Thanks for all the replies it's certainly made some sense of the situation! Deep down I think he wants to help, but another point is that he only ever offers to do things when I'm about to do them. He will never think, right I have a free couple of hours I could get some jobs done. So surely if he wanted to be so helpful he would just seek out things to do??

He manages to remember to take the bins out on the right day which I wouldn't always remember so he can't be completely useless!

Powershower that is brilliant! He had the nerve to say to me once since we had ds that when he lived in the block before we married that his room was always immaculate and clothes etc hung up in a precise order...if he actually put his clothes in his wardrobe that would be an achievement nowadays the cheeky fucker! And he leaves ALL dirty clothes down his side of the bed NEXT to the washing basket which gives me the rage so I don't wash it. Then he's wondering where his uniforms are the day before he needs them which leads to panic washing!!

Couple of suggestions.
Imagine we're trying to sell the house and potential buyers are arriving in 30 minutes.
Imagine your parents are arriving in 30 minutes.
My DH would pull it out of the bag under those circumstances, so he can see it.
If he insists he can't see it, offer to take his car keys as he should not be driving if he can't see this stuff.
When DH failed to post the envelope that he had to step over to leave the house I ripped the piss for a long time. He was a detective. Great anecdote for all his colleagues "how does he ever find a clue? How is a crime ever solved?" He can't see an A4 envelope to be posted when he has to step over it to get out the house!". Not sure if it worked but it made me feel better.
We have a small whiteboard on which I often write jobs of the day for him. He has improved with training and has been known to vacuum spontaneously.