Toddler under water

[viviennewestood]

Took dd to a parent and toddler swimming session today at the local pool. I was sat on the steps while dd sat next to me splashing in the water and a little boy probably around the same age as dd (18 months) was coming towards me and kept dipping under the water, gasping for air. His mum wasn't far behind him but kept saying things like 'go on, don't be a wimp'. He started to cry and then completely went under when he was practically in front of me so I lifted him up without thinking. His mum then snapped at me and said he's getting used to being under water, don't touch him. Was I being unreasonable to lift the child out of the water? He was under for a few seconds trying to scramble to the top.

Tbh I think despite your instructive altruistic I would rather upset a thousand mothers than see a toddler die point of view, the mother was probably humiliated by your judging and acted with bravado or possible just annoyed at the interfering. So I don't think you were unreasonable since you said it was just automatic, but a reaction like that isn't entirely unexpected I don't think

YANBU

You just instinctively put lot out hand to grab him. That's a nice human instinct.

YANBU I have a child who could swim unaided and without and floatation devices before 12 months but the child you describe was unhappy and possibly in distress.

Some children happily swim early and some don't. In fairness DC was a precocious swimmer but a late walker at nearly two!!!!

of course robotic if anyone inhales water it could lead to pneumonia and if enough drowning. you can also drown from drinking too much pool water (it shifts the electrolytes) or from not breathing period when in water (dry drowning).
if you teach babies well, without pushing them it's rare for them to sputter. it's sad to read that some parents are aggressive at teaching their little ones to swim.

Nope, I would've done the same, and probably given the mother as good as I'd got too. I shudder to think what some children go through at their parent's hands.
I was at a toddler sing session once, sitting next to a woman who spent the whole time hissing at her son that they were going to leave if he didn't cheer up, physically pushing him into the centre of the circle when he clearly wanted to stay with her, and generally being a hateful brat. Her poor son was crying and unhappy, but she just didn't like the idea that people there were judging her as if anyone gave a shit- because she had an idea of what her child should be, and dammit, that is what he would be.
I think calling anyone a wimp is awful, especially a toddler for crying out loud. Presumably, he was afraid he was going to drown. No wonder he was scared.

I've seen a few baby swim 'lessons' and find it hard to watch. The parents saying "he's such a good swimmer for his age" ... it's not swimming if they're thrashing about and keep ducking under. An unpopular opinion possibly, but I don't see the need for lessons until after they're a toddler. Take them to the pool yes, encourage to get wet, brilliant. But 'lessons' for a 3 week old? No.

My DD has these types of hysterical reactions every week she takes my GD swimming.

My GD is starting to independently swim, at 18 months (rather than just float whilst moving her arms).

She's been going swimming since eight weeks old and was rocked under from not much older. She loves the water, we've got a big blow up pool and she's lived in it, since the weathers been hot.

Last week, whilst in the baths, a man raced to her, because she was under.

The verbal abuse was wrong and tbh, if I heard it and thought that I was seeing what you were, I would have alerted the guard.

How far can we interfere in other people's children playing on a climbing frame, or what they do at Horseriding?

""I would've done the same, and probably given the mother as good as I'd got too.""

Then why didn't you, at the toddler sing session?

"Then why didn't you, at the toddler sing session?"

I did.

To clarify, I wasn't nasty to the mother at the sing session, but I did suggest gently to her that it was ok if he didn't want to join in, that he was a cutie and he was doing great.

The woman stared at me slack-jawed then told me that "honestly, it's an attitude problem he has" at which point I realised it was totally pointless, but I couldn't not say anything.

However if someone snapped at me the way the OP describes, I'd probably be more forceful in my reply. I think the "your kids, your rules" thing only goes so far, and calling a toddler a wimp while he struggles in the water crosses a line.

I think you were probably unreasonable.

Our boys were both happy to dive under water from less than a year (10 months maybe). We let our children 'go under' to acclimatise. They now love our pool. DS 4 swam 2 lengths last week. Struggled for the last few metres but we didn't help. DS 1 1/2 thinks he can swim and has no fear of the water. That't the dangerous stage.

"calling a toddler a wimp while he struggles in the water crosses a line."

Which line is that slipper? The line where your opinion becomes more important than the other mother's?

edit. By "dive under" I mean throw themselves into a swimming pool. From the day they were born they loved lying in water (face up or face down to blow bubbles).

Children at that age can't swim on top of the water as their arm and neck muscles aren't developed enough and their heads are relatively heavy. My dd learnt to swim from 4 months (I'm a swimming teacher) and she would swim underwater, come up gasping for a breath and go back under again to swim. She was fine and as she grew stronger that dipping up motion has resulted in brilliant breast stroke.

However, if the little boy was distressed or uncomfortable in any way, his dm may have done more harm than good in that he may develop a fear of the water. I really don't ever have any child distressed at all in my lessons, it's counter productive and can set learning back weeks.

I don't know whether you were saving that child from drowning as I wasn't there to witness but it's difficult to see a child in distress and not comfort them.

Oh yes, forgot to say that posters here often say that children swimming before school age is a waste as its not possible. My dd2 was swimming 10m independently before her second birthday, we lived in a hot country with unfenced pools everywhere, everyone had swimming parties and swam every single day. It's a life skill, probably as important as learning to cross the road, everyone should learn as early as possible. Child drowning rates are always higher than they need to be.

See I would call my toddler a wimp ( I would mean it in an affectionate way) but he will scream and strop about putting his head under water, he is more than capable and can do it...just prefers not to... However he needs to for swimming so I would probably seem mean as he would be crying but I wouldn't let him stop

That sounds like a recipe for a phobia (and a bit cruel).

The reason baby swimming starts so long is that the babies still have the reflex of stopping breathing as soon as water splashes on their faces (or blowing air I think). If you continue lessons they maintain this reflex and if you stop lessons or have a long pause for some reason, they tend to lose the reflex, and it's then that you can get into problems with the ducking under water.

My DS did baby swimming 'lessons' which were very gentle and increasing in playfulness as they grew into little toddlers. It was a wonderful way of bonding with your baby in the medium they have spent more time in compared to air... I ducked DS and he swam under water but I never had him screaming and if I had done, I don't think the teacher would have been at all keen.

I suspect it's a few people give the whole baby swimming thing a very bad name by 'practising' on their own or with a bad teacher.

I think that if you are within arms reach and you see what looks like a child drowning/about to then there are no circumstamces I can think of where it is not acceptable to fish them out.

The parent may not like it they may not be impressed but so fucking what, my Bubz my Rulz only goes so far.

Unless you really do want to live in a world where people don't fish out drowning babies who are within arms reach just incase nearby mummy wanted kid to drown

However he needs to for swimming so I would probably seem mean as he would be crying but I wouldn't let him stop

The thing is that you don't have to. I watch a baby swim class and I am increasingly uncomfortable at how parents are told by the instructor that they have to do x, y, z...... There are older babies there who know what is coming next (the dunking bit) and are screaming and shaking and yet they are still tipped into the water if they don't slide in voluntarily (which none of them do!) The instructor (who is lovely I will add) always says things like "I know they hate this, but we just have to do it..." Why? I'm quite sure that the adults getting swimming lessons don't get forced underwater so I cannot fathom why they insist the babies have to do this in order to be able to swim. It is horrible to watch what should be a fun thing turn into miserable, crying babies. The parents then get annoyed that their child doesn't want to co-operate and this seems to make them more annoyed.

This swimming for babies sounds so cruel. My oldest loved swimming from about 2 but my youngest was terrified. So knowing he had to go swimming with the school when he started we spent the term before just sitting for days at the edge. He gradually kept going down a step at a time until he was not frightened. In his teens he was well into SCUBA diving and the oldest swam for his school. So no need to terrify babies or start them off so early.

No child should ever ever be upset in the water. In my lessons, any hint of distress and we immediately go back to doing something we love. Took me 8 weeks to get a fearful 2yo to put her face in the water, involved a huge amount of props, toys and tiny baby steps but no tears and no distress. 4 weeks after that she was jumping in and picking toys off the floor of the pool. I trained in the Australian system and it's pretty different. Teachers who cause distress (and I've seen plenty) should review their methods and what they're trying to achieve.

For great swim videos to teach your own kids a little, look up Laurie Lawrence.

OP I think I would have strangled her with my bare hands, so no YANBU. She sounds awful to call her baby son a wimp and watch him cry and struggle. Not least the risk of dry drowning (yes I've probably watched too many episodes of The Affair)

ISR is not swimming, it's teaching very small babies to roll over and float in an emergency situation. It's taken off like crazy where I live in the USA, everyone does it. It's hot, there are lots of pools and families spend time swimming in lakes and rivers during the summer, fishing is common and we are an hour to the sea. Kids are around water all the time.

YANBU, you clearly acted on instinct. I think I would have done the same.

It's hard to say whether you were being unreasonable without being there, but I have to defend baby swimming. I took my daughter from 10 weeks old and would have started earlier had there Ben a place available. The youngest child was 5 weeks. Anyway this was over 4 years ago and while we sometimes had tears and some of the practises seem cruel the results are amazing. At 4 1/2 she is so water confident and truly loves swimming. She has no fears of Having her face in the water. She has just moved to mainstream lessons where I have to say I see kids of the same age who are scared. Starting them so young builds on their natural instincts, leaving it until thy're a toddler means you miss this opportunity. I was always firm with my daughter and just pushed through any tears, it didn't lead to let distress or a phobia, on the contrary she is a happy little fish!